A Tecumseh Tale

[Gregor 4,846]

Yeah.. What he said..

[ebinmaine 67,695]

10 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Yeah.. What he said..

Me too

[Tractorhead 9,064]

To find out how Strong your Charging system is exactly, you can use the bulb row, fire up the horse 

with complete Charging system active, where the bulbs will be parallel with the Battery connected to a Voltmeter.

 

than you wait until Voltage begins to drop and remove one bulb By one from the line.

if Voltage begins to increase, you can measure the Amps in DC ( the fluke should be able to do that).

can be fine checked with some additional lower Bulbs until the Voltage will begin to increase again.

 

the now measured amperes are the Limit of your charging system.

That should be somewhere on about 4 Amps.

4 Amps * 12V nominal = 48Watts.

with few more Windings on each coil, you be able to increase the Voltage against the drop, that results in a higher Wattage at all.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,846]

@Tractorhead I received this today. I ordered it several days ago. Can you tell? Is it actually a REGULATOR, or simply a RECTIFIER?  Thanks  Greg

 

Voltage Regulator Rectifier

[Tractorhead 9,064]

3 hours ago, Gregor said:

@Tractorhead I received this today. I ordered it several days ago. Can you tell? Is it actually a REGULATOR, or simply a RECTIFIER?  Thanks  Greg

 

Voltage Regulator Rectifier

 

That is a Combo rectifier regulator, 

i have the same in my Tracta. 

 

To use this, you need a Ground Free AC input, that means you must bring it back in the Order, it was before the diodes working.

It have to be connected like my first pict without the Ground 

But instead to go to Diodes both AC Lead go directly into the both Yellow wires on the Regulator.

 

The green Wire from the Regulator go directly to Ground on chassis or Battery( what i prefer)

and the Red Wire go via a inline Fuse direct to Battery or better to IGN on Keyswitch.

I put the Red Wire to the IGN port on Keyswitch, so if regulator fails for whatever Reason it cannot drop my Battery when Tracta is stopped.

 

found few Picts from my Electric in the 656 i reworked completely.

it is not in a final State, it is just a short term Testinstallation - until now... 😎

 

I use a 10A Inline Fuse flat car type,(left lower in the Pict close to the Keyswitch) because i just protect my Wires not a Electronic Part.

Directly Attached with a Y connector is with a Violett Wire the Voltage Display.

 

The 20A fuse directly next to the Battery is the Main Battery Fuse including Solenoid ( except Startermotor)

The second 15A is planed for a Remote connector ( maybe later a Cigarett lighter) direct from Battery

The third 15A is unused for now ( spare Fuse) for later purposes.

 

 

 

In the Pict you can see, i mounted my Regulator in the Dashbox even my Motocycle Battery Fits here.

 

 

It doesn‘t Touch any Metal Parts the Mounting Bracked is made of Plastic i build myself.

 

 

 

That is my Starter Battery.

I tried it one, i can run the Starterengine without any problems.

255CCA seems enough Power to fireup my Horse.

That is the same Battery i use in my KTM Motorbike.

 

 

 

 

 

Don‘t compare my Electric about Wirecolors with yours,

i changed the whole Wires because i have my own Colorscheme.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,846]

24 VAC input to regulator says yellow and pink wire.  Green to ground, red to battery.

 

You have a Lawn Boy gas cap too !

[Tractorhead 9,064]

5 minutes ago, Gregor said:

24 VAC input to regulator says yellow and pink wire.  Green to ground, red to battery.

 

You have a Lawn Boy gas cap too !

 

Yap, if your AC input wires have that Colors.

they differs sometimes in colors on the AC Input Wires but i don‘t know why.

 

It was on the Tracta when i got it.

[Gregor 4,846]

13.7 VAC into voltage regulator. Ground wire off. @ 3300 RPM   6.7 DCV out. 

 

With my diodes, Ground wire on.   21 VAC into diodes @ 3300 RPM,  15.6 DCV out.  Think I'll stick with what I have. I got the voltage regulator today, wanted to try it out.

 

Maybe it would go up if I disconnected battery? It is fully charged.

 

EDIT:......Actually....I didn't have it connected to my battery, only my meter.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

@Tractorhead This is the wiring for my tractor. I have a new ignition switch on order. When it gets here I will replace the 2 push button switches.  Do you see any changes you would make? Any suggestions?

[Tractorhead 9,064]

No changes needed.

 

whatever you measure on that Regulator is wrong.

this regulator needs urgently a battery as reference.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

6 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

 

 

whatever you measure on that Regulator is wrong.

this regulator needs urgently a battery as reference.

 

I figured as much. I have a spare battery. I hooked a light to it. I am going to let it run down, and hook everything back up again.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

47 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I figured as much. I have a spare battery. I hooked a light to it. I am going to let it run down, and hook everything back up again.

 

This Regulator System needs a Battery for internal reference measurings.

 

If the system now run without a battery the outgiving Voltage can spread in a wide Variety, depending on the type of regulator,

that maybe seems to make no sense. In fact this is definitely a respond reaction of the regulator.

 

Check the Battery with a level from 12,5V that means on a gel Type ( VRLA) like i use in my tracta 1/2 of charging.

The real datas will give you the Battery manufacturer but for a thumb rule on Lead Acid and Gel (VRLA) Types you can say

 

13.0V = Gel (VRLA) Type fresh loaded to 100%

12,8V = Battery is Full      98%

12,5V = Battery is half.     50%

12,1V = Battery is empty  30%       needs recharge, deeper a Battery level should not being used.

11,8V =  Battery is in a critical low Voltage status,   urgently recharge or the battery destroys itself internally.

              This Voltages estimations are just valid without any Load.

 

that give you a little feeling of the Status of a Battery just with a Meter aside.

Nominal a Lead Acid or Gel ( VRLA) will be dealed for 4Years, each year it lives longer was given time, if it dies faster - bad luck.

This values does not be comparable to LiFePoY4 or AGM types.

 

Lifepo‘s are extremely Voltage stable until the Battery is empty, then they drop extremely quick.

pro. Fantastic Capacity usability, highest enegy density.

dis. Expensive, no long term experience available. Mostly unclear if a BMS is inside and how it works.

 

AGM are Battery for short term hard Load but not for Longterm use.

Pro. Good Energy density, only as Starter Battery ok, 

dis. Because of just fleece bound Acid the dry quick in hotter envoirement.

 

My own result - For our Needs

I don‘t like AGM because i have only bad luck with them, the best i find are actual Gel VRLA types at all.

 

( edit) 

LiFePoY‘s are not included because i know actual just 3 Manufacturers they differs in Type and 

mounting of the BMS and they need a special charging Unit what is also temperature dependent.

There is actual no Senseful reason to use them.

(end edit)

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,846]

Results

Kind-a makes me wonder why I paid $135 for a voltage rectifier for one of my other tractors a few years ago.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 9,064]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Results

Kind-a makes me wonder why I paid $135 for a voltage rectifier for one of my other tractors a few years ago.

 

 

A battery with 9,8 V in idle after longer time is normally handled ed as a dead Battery

(typically it shows shortcut on a internal Cell).

 

While charging it should show the charging Voltage but in longer charge time it becomes Warm

on the outer Surface of the Batterycase and begin to smell like rotten eggs.

 

When you couple the both Charging coils together that you see 24V AC ungrounded and hook them on the 

regulator in it will reduces the charging Amperage to half but the regulator will restrict the Battery Voltage to 14,4V max.

 

Charging is allway‘s a interaction of more things that are - Time - Voltage- Amperes - Temperature.

It is a dynamically process.

A Lead Acid Battery or also a VRLA will normally just Use only a fract of a provided Amperage.

As a thumbrule for a 12Ah Battery should be recharged with about 3-4A maximum.

All above is dealed in terms as a  „Quickcharge“

So for a fully recharge needs about 4-5 hours because the last percent of charge process will takes the longest time.

 

That goes in relation of what you drop for other implement‘s like Lights or other electric externals. ( i.eg. Electric PTO)

 

The charging process can be simple be calculated with several equations, 

but in natural it is much more complex and needs more Data than somebody will imagine.

That results i.eg. in it‘s chemical processes internally, they also be Temperature depending.

You surely can quickcharge also a Lead Acid or VRLA Battery, but the chemical processes don‘t like that

and quit that „rape“ with an earlier Batterydead.

On permanently quickcharge a battery ages much faster than if it‘s just normally charged.

 

Than the factor Time will do the rest.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

@pfrederiSome time back I believe it was you that posted a couple links. One was for a 656 parts manual, the other link was for the owners manual. I saved them both. They are now buried somewhere deep in the bowels of this computer, and I can't find them. I also can't remember which thread you posted them in. I have been looking and looking, but to no avail. Could you possibly post them again, so I can print them, and put them in my book? I know how to do books.  Thanks  Greg

[Tractorhead 9,064]

8 minutes ago, Gregor said:

@pfrederiSome time back I believe it was you that posted a couple links. One was for a 656 parts manual, the other link was for the owners manual. I saved them both. They are now buried somewhere deep in the bowels of this computer, and I can't find them. I also can't remember which thread you posted them in. I have been looking and looking, but to no avail. Could you possibly post them again, so I can print them, and put them in my book? I know how to do books.  Thanks  Greg

 

 

 

 

You can find them in the Manuals Section.

[Gregor 4,846]

@TractorheadI got to thinking about these charging coils. I discovered with some trial and error, and a little practice, they can be wound rather easily. Would it be possible to wind a ignition coil?  Just wondering.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

15 minutes ago, Gregor said:

. Would it be possible to wind a ignition coil?

..... And why or why not.....?

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Yap it is.

you just have to wind much more...

The primary Windings rules are about like your 12 V Coil, the High Voltage side needs about factor thousand more windings

on much thinner wire.

 

Estimated Value - About 0,25sqmm in diameter with about 10.000 up to 25.000 Windings shall be do the Trick.

But while ignitioncoils are that cheap, there is no sensefully reason to wind one yourself.

but in principle it can be done yes.

 

if you like to try - have a lot of Fun... 😎

[Gregor 4,846]

10 - 25 thousand windings.  I may have to pass on that.  Thank You

[Tractorhead 9,064]

38 minutes ago, Gregor said:

10 - 25 thousand windings.  I may have to pass on that.  Thank You

 

That‘s a several day‘s TV Job.... 😂😂😂😂

[wallfish 17,017]

6 hours ago, Gregor said:

I discovered with some trial and error, and a little practice, they can be wound rather easily

That could be a nice little niche side gig if ya have the time. Don't know of anyone offering a charging system rebuild off the top of my head.

I'm guessing you might have bought one if there was, before you tried doing it yourself.

[Gregor 4,846]

20 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

I'm guessing you might have bought one if there was, before you tried doing it yourself.

What....and missed out on all the fun of aggravating @Tractorhead? Wouldn't have missed it for for anything. I have all the time in the world. Sometimes having too much time is dangerous. Gives a person too much time to think.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Sometimes having too much time is dangerous. Gives a person too much time to think

Hey, Truck driver here. 

 

Yyyeeeaaahhh....

 

Time to think.....

 

Lucky for me I do all local delivery now. 

 

Woooooooooo.

[Handy Don 12,246]

50 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Hey, Truck driver here. 

 

Yyyeeeaaahhh....

 

Time to think.....

 

Lucky for me I do all local delivery now. 

 

Woooooooooo.

Hmmm, why am I here? Musta missed a turn while I was thinkin' about tractors.