Let's discuss sugar or beet juice tire fill. Homemade??

[ebinmaine 67,433]

I've searched online for information about adding sugar to water instead of salt. 

A chemical solution can be easily made weighing up to 13 to 15 lbs per gallon BUT it doesn't stay fluid anywhere near as cold as the Rimguard brand mix. 

 

Is there a way to figure a solution to make one's own beet juice or sugar based fluid fill and have it usable as FLUID as cold as say minus 20 or 30?

 

What sat you Redsquare scientists??

 

 

 

 

@ecsi635j 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

A couple years back I went on a mission to find and use the best and most economical ways to add traction weight for garden tractors and I'm still using windshield washer fluid or RV antifreeze and whatever bargain weights I can find.  I'm not sure if the RV antifreeze is worth the extra $$ if you get good low temp washer fluid.

 

Calcium chloride solution with inner tubes is still on my list but I haven't actually used it yet.

 

But I'm still interested in what everyone else thinks!

Edited November 22, 2020 by DennisThornton
Added RV antifreeze

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

I have just purchased a tractor with loaded rears. The owner loaded them with RV anti-freeze. The 23x10.5x12’s hold 6 gallons each. They are Deestone Ag’s and do not look like 23-10.5 to my eyes but that’s what it says on them. Think that the 23-10.5’s should hold 7-8 gallons so my eyes may not be to far off!  Any way the RV anti-freeze is 8.417 lbs per gallon for just over 50lbs. Per tire. Also have the 50lbs wheel horse weights for a total of 100ish pounds per side. It is non toxic, has rust inhibitors and works. I like it.

[ebinmaine 67,433]

40 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Deestone

You're correct that they're smaller. 

Also correct that 10.50s should hold 7 gallons. 

 

I have no issue with the idea of RV antifreeze but halfway between me and you Bob in Sanford Maine is a place that installs Rimguard at $4 per gallon plus minimal labor costs. 

In my area that's a comparable price to other fluids. 

 

It seems a quick and easy decision for me to pay them to install the much heavier fluid and I don't have to mess with buying and handling 6 cases of RV antifreeze per tractor. 

 

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

Calcium chloride solution with inner tubes

I've read that if one changes the inner tube valve stem annually the rust issue is greatly reduced but not eliminated. 

Other issues: 

If a leak occurs you MUST remove, clean thoroughly, and reinstall the tire and tube. 

Also the salt mix will kill off vegetation wherever it spills in more than a minor concentration. Rimguard claims there's no effect on environment. 

 

We do love the idea of as much as possible DIY so I'd like to find or make a fluid other than calcium chloride (salt) that has the WEIGHT and ease of use as Rimguard. 

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

Keep in mind that RV "anti-freeze" does freeze but it does not expand like plain water.  I don't know how it might act in tires at very low temperatures, seems to me that there would be considerable balance and ride issues.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

39 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

You're correct that they're smaller. 

Also correct that 10.50s should hold 7 gallons. 

 

I have no issue with the idea of RV antifreeze but halfway between me and you Bob in Sanford Maine is a place that installs Rimguard at $4 per gallon plus minimal labor costs. 

In my area that's a comparable price to other fluids. 

 

It seems a quick and easy decision for me to pay them to install the much heavier fluid and I don't have to mess with buying and handling 6 cases of RV antifreeze per tractor. 

 

I've read that if one changes the inner tube valve stem annually the rust issue is greatly reduced but not eliminated. 

Other issues: 

If a leak occurs you MUST remove, clean thoroughly, and reinstall the tire and tube. 

Also the salt mix will kill off vegetation wherever it spills in more than a minor concentration. Rimguard claims there's no effect on environment. 

 

We do love the idea of as much as possible DIY so I'd like to find or make a fluid other than calcium chloride (salt) that has the WEIGHT and ease of use as Rimguard. 

 

$4 gallon installed almost makes that a no-brainer for me.  Gets cold up here my way and I'm guessing same for you.  What happens to beet juice -20F?  I haven't seen much colder than that in a decade or better.

And although I've had CaCl2 here for years I've not installed it in a tire yet...

[ebinmaine 67,433]

4 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

$4 gallon installed almost makes that a no-brainer for me.  Gets cold up here my way and I'm guessing same for you.  What happens to beet juice -20F?  I haven't seen much colder than that in a decade or better.

And although I've had CaCl2 here for years I've not installed it in a tire yet...

I didn't look it up on the site but if I remember correctly Rimguard claims -30 for a freezing temperature. 

I've been in New England all my life and I've been in Maine some over 20 years. The coldest I've ever seen here at the house is about -24,  -27 elsewhere.

 

I really don't remember how far below zero I've ever used the tractor to plow. Probably 10, 15 below? It's still very fluid at that point. 

[Pullstart 62,837]

Ok, so how much volume does sugar take up when it dissolves?  Could you add 15 lbs of sugar for each rear tire to an already stable solution, such as RV antifreeze, rimguard or otherwise?  More?

[ebinmaine 67,433]

21 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Ok, so how much volume does sugar take up when it dissolves?  Could you add 15 lbs of sugar for each rear tire to an already stable solution, such as RV antifreeze, rimguard or otherwise?  More?

 

I found on beekeeping websites that you can add EIGHT POUNDS of sugar per gallon of water. 

The sugar bonds directly to the molecules of the water but it's in a slightly different manner than what salt does. The size volume does NOT increase.

Not at all sure what you could do to something like RV antifreeze or washer fluid. 

 

What I am looking to do though is to do a homemade version without having to buy any fluids.

Knowing I have the beet juice available in reasonably close proximity it's going to be tough for me to better that situation but sometimes curiosity just plain gets the better of me....

[briankd 817]

i did washer fluid in my 857 5 yrs ago it does work well I'm a tight arse. back then i got it for a buck a gallon . the rv antifreeze here about 5 bucks a gallon washer fluid half of that just checked yesterday because looking to add some to my c-120. i use my 857 to plow snow 2 yrs ago it was below zero and if my washer fluid did freeze in tires i didn't tell and difference. calcium chloride is corrosive as hell .

I put washer fluid in my steering tires on my 857 got about 2 and half gallon in them . now I was wanting to put a roller chain around them for traction for plow blade now you let air out to get chain tight you also leave alot of fluid out and make a mess. kind of  defeat the purpose of putting fluid in them . don't know if you would take them off and lay them flat stem up if that would work to let air out with out loosening a lot of fluid. 

[ebinmaine 67,433]

26 minutes ago, briankd said:

if you would take them off and lay them flat stem up if that would work to let air out with out loosening a lot of fluid

Depending on how far they were filled that could potentially work. Worst case scenario you would lose less fluid than you would have if they were upright of course.

 

Low temperature washer fluid in my area is either - 20 or - 25 rated and my experience shows me that it is not always an accurate number. Higher temperatures are often the freeze point. 

Those are on sale at $3 per gallon occasionally and normally are $4 to $6 per gallon. I can't remember seeing winter grade washer fluid for less than $3 a gallon in the state of Maine for quite a few years now. I do remember 3 years ago when I got these tires that I have filled, Rimguard at $3.50 a gallon was actually LESS than ANY of the RV antifreeze or washer fluid I could find anywhere in the area. 

 

Given the fact that beet juice is the same price and I don't have to deal with the transportation or filling myself I still remain much ahead of myself to use the Rimguard product, IMHO.

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

R-I-M-G-U-A-R-D

[Pullstart 62,837]

Remember asking Jeeves everything?  I wonder if he learned it from Google... or if Google is his prodigy?

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,433]

6 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Remember asking Jeeves everything?  I wonder if he learned it from Google... or if Google is his prodigy?

 

 

 

 

Depending on the ratio of water to sugar you can get it down to about 12 or 15 degrees ABOVE zero but nowhere near below zero as its lowest freezing point, from what I've been able to find. 

 

 

[Pullstart 62,837]

Gotcha.  I know where there’s some water.  And sugar.  And a freezer.

[AHS 1,440]

 I went to a tire place in Bangor. And they filled it up with citrus... no idea what that is?? Weighed 80 lbs on an AG 23x8.5. With out a tube!? I dunno if that’s a good idea or a bad idea...

[Pullstart 62,837]

Like orange juice?

[ebinmaine 67,433]

43 minutes ago, AHS said:

 I went to a tire place in Bangor. And they filled it up with citrus... no idea what that is?? Weighed 80 lbs on an AG 23x8.5. With out a tube!? I dunno if that’s a good idea or a bad idea...

We have a place that uses a "corn based product" but they charge HUGE labor per hour for the WHOLE amount of time it takes to fill the tire(s). 

Every other place charges a small flat fee. 

They work them in between the other jobs. 

 

 

[AHS 1,440]

45 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

We have a place that uses a "corn based product" but they charge HUGE labor per hour for the WHOLE amount of time it takes to fill the tire(s). 

Every other place charges a small flat fee. 

They work them in between the other jobs. 

 

 

Ya, that’s the problem.. the cost! It only gets done once, or I hope!

[JoeM 7,873]

RK has RV stuff that is -50 for just over $2. Wally world had Prestone -100 for $4. That tire place sounds like a no brainer. 

How much does sugar cost a pound?

I like the tire place idea and use the sugar to make cookies!

[lynnmor 7,305]

There are two kinds of RV anti-freeze, one contains ethanol and the good stuff does not.  I would wonder about the long term effects of ethanol in a rubber tire, not to mention the flammability.

Edited November 22, 2020 by lynnmor

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

You're correct that they're smaller. 

Also correct that 10.50s should hold 7 gallons. 

 

I have no issue with the idea of RV antifreeze but halfway between me and you Bob in Sanford Maine is a place that installs Rimguard at $4 per gallon plus minimal labor costs. 

In my area that's a comparable price to other fluids. 

 

It seems a quick and easy decision for me to pay them to install the much heavier fluid and I don't have to mess with buying and handling 6 cases of RV antifreeze per tractor. 

 

I've read that if one changes the inner tube valve stem annually the rust issue is greatly reduced but not eliminated. 

Other issues: 

If a leak occurs you MUST remove, clean thoroughly, and reinstall the tire and tube. 

Also the salt mix will kill off vegetation wherever it spills in more than a minor concentration. Rimguard claims there's no effect on environment. 

 

We do love the idea of as much as possible DIY so I'd like to find or make a fluid other than calcium chloride (salt) that has the WEIGHT and ease of use as Rimguard. 

 

4 bucks a gallon is a no brainer agreed. I’ll do that next time I load some tires. Care to share the name of the place? Bet it ain’t the Deere dealer....

[ebinmaine 67,433]

17 minutes ago, AHS said:

the cost

Might pay you to call around from Newport to Orono and just check the dollars. 

 

4 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Care to share the name of the place?

Absolutely. And no it ain't that deere place. 

Central Tire on 109 south. 

 

 

[953 nut 55,194]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

If a leak occurs you MUST remove, clean thoroughly, and reinstall the tire and tube. 

I just did this yesterday.   Removed the rim/tire and put it on top of a box with the valve stem over the edge. Put a five gallon bucket under the valve stem and removed the core. All but about a pint of the RV Antifreeze came out and once the tube was out of the tire I salvaged the rest. From that point it was like any other tire/tube repair, remove the nail, clean and patch the tube, put it back together and use my little fountain pump to refill the tube from the bucket.  Not a big ordeal!

[bds1984 1,429]

If one is set on using washer fluid or RV anti-freeze, many of the local junk yards I've gone to over the years collect both from cars/anything that enters the gates and are more than happy to give it away or sell it for really, really cheap.  Last year my Sears was closing and was left with hundreds of gallons of bulk washer fluid in the Auto Service Center that was given away as long as you brought a container to fill.  

On a related note, my C165 has some version of Rim Guard in its 23x10.50s AND iron weights that are at least 55 pounds.  I'd say that has easily added 300 pounds to the back tires.  Not exactly cheap, but well worth it.  Now if I could balance the front's 18x8.50s, that rig would be nearly unstoppable.  My 520H is my dedicated plow rig that has been tubed on all four wheels and filled with washer fluid that very cheaply added a hundred-twenty pounds.  There really is only so much that one can stuff into the rims/tires no matter what the fluid substance... Despite all of that, I am still a firm believer in the iron/steel/concrete weight added to our machines but the Rim Guard sure is a nice addition.