77 B80 no spark

[AHS 1,479]

I got this B80 as a project, $100 project! Ok so I’ve replaced the solenoid, the ignition switch, the coil, the spark plug wire and the spark plug. I can’t tell if it the wiring or the points? 
 

B =  Th neg. wire of the ammeter?
A= accessory? Like lights?

S= start? The wire to the solenoid? 
I= to the positive of the coil? 
R= the DC wire of the rectifier?  
 

it turns over but no spark.  I have 12v  between the B and the Negative of the battery.

[ebinmaine 69,283]

5 minutes ago, AHS said:

ammeter

First thing to do is take one of the ammeter wires and out it on the other. Doesn't matter which way. That eliminates the ammeter from the circuit. 

 

Do you have a test light or meter?

 

[953 nut 56,395]

12 minutes ago, AHS said:

it turns over but no spark.

Remove the cover on the ignition points and take a look, they may be corroded or have an insect nest keeping them from working. To clean the points you can insert a dollar bill between the closed contacts and pull it back and forth a couple times. Once they have been cleaned turn the ignition switch on and open the points with a piece of plastic like a knitting needle. You should see a spark. If there is no spark remove the condenser lead from the coil "-" terminal and try again.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,159]

[Achto 28,062]

1 hour ago, AHS said:

 I have 12v  between the B and the Negative of the battery.

 

Do you have power on the "+" side of the ignition coil when the key switch is in the "run" position? If yes then I would check your points as @953 nut stated above.

[AHS 1,479]

11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

First thing to do is take one of the ammeter wires and out it on the other. Doesn't matter which way. That eliminates the ammeter from the circuit. 

 

Do you have a test light or meter?

 

A meter

[AHS 1,479]

10 hours ago, Achto said:

 

Do you have power on the "+" side of the ignition coil when the key switch is in the "run" position? If yes then I would check your points as @953 nut stated above.

No, that’s what I have been trying to achieve!

[Achto 28,062]

11 minutes ago, AHS said:

No, that’s what I have been trying to achieve!

 

Prob the back of the switch plug. The "B" terminal on the switch should have power all of the time. With the key in the run position you should have power at the "I", "A" & "R" terminals on the switch. If you replaced the switch double check the lettering on the switch terminals to make sure they are going to the proper wires. I have had to move terminals in the plug on some tractors to get proper operation.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Achto

[953 nut 56,395]

If you run a small jumper wire from the battery "+" to the coil "+" do you get spark at the plug?

With the ignition switch in the START position do you have power to the "I" terminal of the ignition switch? If you do then the only component between it and the coil is the wire.

[ebinmaine 69,283]

Have you confirmed that you DO have the correct ignition switch?

Make sure it does NOT have an M terminal...

[AHS 1,479]

Not an M switch? I don’t think so. Wait a minute, there are two different switches? @ebinmaine

[ebinmaine 69,283]

3 minutes ago, AHS said:

Not an M switch? I don’t think so. Wait a minute, there are two different switches? @ebinmaine

Yeah there's a switch from the '70s which is what should be in that tractor and it has the terminals listed as above.

Note that there is NO m. 

 

The super common switch that most garden tractors take after about 1980 or 82 is exactly the same size shape color, number of terminals, everything. On the back it has an M terminal for magneto.

 

That won't work in your application. 

 

If you look at the back of the switch and have an M terminal or if you look at the back of the switch and cannot positively identify ALL of the terminals, throw it in the trash or return it as wrong.  

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,159]

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped into the terminals themselves.

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped into the back insulating plate.

Sometimes the identifying letters are not stamped anywhere.

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped incorrectly which can be determined by the key position function with an ohmmeter.

This is what you are looking for for battery ignition. Click on the picture

Garry

[Pullstart 63,301]

8 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped into the terminals themselves.

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped into the back insulating plate.

Sometimes the identifying letters are not stamped anywhere.

Sometimes the identifying letters are stamped incorrectly which can be determined by the key position function with an ohmmeter.

This is what you are looking for for battery ignition. Click on the picture

Garry

Sometimes an unknowing little rugrat will obliterate your previously working key switch to the point that none of these tricks will work on an XI series...  

[rmaynard 15,767]

This is a page out of my notes when I first started working on my first B-100 (same wiring as B-80). 

 

Set multimeter to 12 VDC. Put black probe securely on the (-) terminal of the battery. Take the red probe and see if you have 12 volts at both sides of the ammeter. It should be present with or without the ignition switch turned on. If not, the ammeter or the wiring to and from it is the problem. If there is 12 volts at both sides, then check the "B" terminal of the ignition switch. With or without the switch turned on, there should be 12 volts at the "B" terminal. If there is 12 volts at "B", turn the switch to "run" and check "I" terminal. There should be 12 volts there. If not, the switch is bad. If there is 12 volts at "I", and nothing at the coil, the wire itself from "I" to the coil may be bad.

NOTES:

1. If the ammeter has 12 volts at one side and not the other, just remove he wires and hook them together.

2. The word "bad" when referring to wires can mean loose, cut, shorted, bad terminals etc.

 

 

[953 nut 56,395]

Here is some information on the two most commonly used ignition switches on  and the results you'll get if the wrong one is used.

 if a 103991 (Magneto) switch was placed in a Battery Ignition tractor. With the exception of a frustrated person wondering why nothin works the outcome would be rather harmless.

In the OFF position the R and A terminals would be connected Ground, no big deal.

In the RUN position the I, A and R terminals would be connected, nothing would happen but no harm would come of it.

In the START position the S an I terminals would be connected, once again nothing would happen but no harm would come of it.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by 953 nut

[AHS 1,479]

so, delete the ammeter. And hook the the red to the light green? If I am understanding what you are saying...

On 11/8/2020 at 6:44 PM, ebinmaine said:

First thing to do is take one of the ammeter wires and out it on the other. Doesn't matter which way. That eliminates the ammeter from the circuit. 

 

Do you have a test light or meter?

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,159]

That is correct.

First remove the negative battery cable from the battery.

Move one of the ammeter wires to the other side of the ammeter.

Reconnect the negative battery cable.

 

Garry

[squonk 41,747]

If it turns over it is not the ammeter. Go to a auto parts store and get a cheap test light and an inline spark tester. Confirm no spark first. If you do not have spark, confirm 12 at coil positive. If you have 12 volts there, use the test light on coil negative. While cranking the engine, test light should flash. If it stays lit points are grounded. If it stays off, open in coil. 

[ebinmaine 69,283]

6 minutes ago, squonk said:

If it turns over it is not the ammeter. Go to a auto parts store and get a cheap test light and an inline spark tester. Confirm no spark first. If you do not have spark, confirm 12 at coil positive. If you have 12 volts there, use the test light on coil negative. While cranking the engine, test light should flash. If it stays lit points are grounded. If it stays off, open in coil. 

Super excellent simple description Mike I'll be printing that to hang on the wall....

[AHS 1,479]

This is what came out of the B80, in and around 2 quarts of water and a little tiny bit of gear oil! A shifter boot is on order!! And gear oil!!

[ebinmaine 69,283]

Remember to raise the front end as much as safely possible to get past the bolt bump in the floor of the transmission. 

[AHS 1,479]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Remember to raise the front end as much as safely possible to get past the bolt bump in the floor of the transmission. 

Like 2’? More like 2. 5’!

[ebinmaine 69,283]

1 minute ago, AHS said:

Like 2’? More like 2. 5’!

Perfect!

[AHS 1,479]

I got spark!! New points, coil, spark plug wire and all that stuff! It turned over easy, but I didn’t know about 8hps and how much compression they were supposed to have... i took the head off and my exhaust valve was stuck open! All better now, but I got a broken head bolt in the process! Now, a broken head bolt.. something to be worried about. But there was enough threads there to thread on a nut and weld it!😀 See, @ebinmaine, I told you I would break something! The bore looks all clean though! Oh, turn your computer over, I have to fix that!!

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by AHS