Project "Snow Drift"

[Lee1977 6,659]

14 hours ago, Oldskool said:

If you look at the pics again you will notice there are proposed tensioners. 1 on each side. Top pic is middle bottom. Bottom pic top right. Both on the slack side. They aren't finished yet.

That's the best you can do, I don't see anything that would be better. All cars use the tension type idlers with the multi groove belts. Had the tensioner fall of a 94 Explorer while setting at the 

drive in window at the drug store. One single belt no alternator, water pump or power steering.

[Oldskool 6,644]

Here we go. 

[Oldskool 6,644]

TEST DRIVE #2

  Well......I tried.

 

Next week link is the main drive belt. 

IT started slipping.

My next concern is, the drive units themselves. Im starting to wonder if they have enough power to perform. I know I can change sprocket size but at that time it may be to slow to the point it may not be worth it.

 

Back to the drawing board I guess

 

[ebinmaine 67,502]

💩

[Oldskool 6,644]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

💩

Well......yup.  You nailed it 

[Oldskool 6,644]

Just burned off my frustrations for the last hour using a hay scythe to cut all the cattails down around our pond. It kinda helped. To pooped to turn a wrench now. lmao

[SylvanLakeWH 25,560]

31 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

💩

Sometimes that one just hits the spot... 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

52 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

Just burned off my frustrations for the last hour using a hay scythe to cut all the cattails down around our pond. It kinda helped. To pooped to turn a wrench now. lmao

 

Get yourself a day free of Wrenching to clear your mind and calm.

That help‘s me a lot if i stuck in any idea.

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

1 minute ago, Tractorhead said:

 

Get yourself a day free of Wrenching to clear your mind and calm.

That help‘s me a lot if i stuck in any idea.

 

Its hard to do. I've been consumed for over 2 months now with this. It goes good sideways. Maybe I should just turn the seat sideways and call it good lol.

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

Test drive #3 

 

I think I have the main belt slippage taken care of for now. I think there is a revisit to it in the near future.

 

Next hurdle is the lack of power from the drive units. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,502]

14 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

. It goes good sideways. Maybe I should just turn the seat sideways and call it good lol.

 

I'm okay with this

[Handy Don 12,232]

Read this tomorrow after your day or wrenchrest.

 

 

FWIW, could it be that the gravel is creating too much friction with the screw blades and barrel for the current powertrain to overcome?  I wonder if on something slipperier like deep or crusted snow it would fare better?

In the videos of other machines, they were never on anything more solid than packed snow or even water (except the Chrysler one that had 200 hp!)

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

Just now, Handy Don said:

Read this tomorrow after your day or wrenchrest.

 

 

FWIW, could it be that the gravel is creating too much friction with the screw blades and barrel for the current powertrain to overcome?  I wonder if on something slipperier like deep or crusted snow it would fare better?

In the videos of other machines, they were never on anything more solid than packed snow or even water (except the Chrysler one that had 200 hp!)

 

I've wondered that too. I was thinking a gear change may be in order. Maybe a smaller sprocket on the drive. I cant go bigger on the screws

[Handy Don 12,232]

Last time I used my runner sled down the hill (last year!) I was going great until it hit a patch of dirt under the snow.  It stopped; I didn't. That was a two Advil day.

If you have some deep or crusted snow, or a snow-covered pond (with nice THICK ice) it may be worth trying before further wrenching.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

4 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Last time I used my runner sled down the hill (last year!) I was going great until it hit a patch of dirt under the snow.  It stopped; I didn't. That was a two Advil day.

If you have some deep or crusted snow, or a snow-covered pond (with nice THICK ice) it may be worth trying before further wrenching.

😂. Pict‘s. 🤪😎

Edited February 5, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Tractorhead 9,064]

When you see Collin‘s Video‘s he was able to move even in Mud, but he used Hydraulics.

A direct flanged pump and two hydro motors.

 

that works much more friction free but it is also very expensive,

but on his first Vid, they plow lot‘s of snow to a little hill to try.

[Oldskool 6,644]

I wish I hadn't plowed the driveway. I would have good snow close by. Its warm here now. The ground wont be froze again till Sunday morning. I think I am lacking power at the units. I've been on line trying to figure out how to check/change fluid in them. I'm not having much luck

[Tractorhead 9,064]

17 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

I wish I hadn't plowed the driveway. I would have good snow close by. Its warm here now. The ground wont be froze again till Sunday morning. I think I am lacking power at the units. I've been on line trying to figure out how to check/change fluid in them. I'm not having much luck

 

 

No reason to stress yourself.

See it positive, winter is not finished, so i hope the best for another bit of Snow.

Inbetween you have some Time put your hands on to check the hardware.

 

i too believe, that it will performs better on a more slippery surface.👍

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,232]

I was out by myself sledding that day. Spouse was at work, or else there likely would have been a video! 

Pretty sure the stress of that event led to the runner on the sled breaking. Of course, the (ab)use it got in the 70 years it'd been in our family before that might have been a factor! Probably thousands of runs--many over "jumps", crashing into stuff, and overloaded with daredevil kids (small and big).

Sled is now permanently retired--local welder told me that there is no safe way to weld or braze the runner.

[wallfish 17,000]

Trying it on a slicker surface like deep snow might produce a better result is my guess too. What we need to help figure out for the time being is how to get it to run on ice with the current spiral configuration so you can make the fishing derby happen! 

  Do you have a spot in the yard to hose down by day and freeze overnight to make a "test track"?

Could sharpening the edges be enough to dig in the ice to propel it forward? Have you tried any load changes yet on the test runs?

Could going smaller on the front axle between the bearings to put a little angle on the screws work to add more forward action force? Maybe try something quick and temporary first to see if that helps? Maybe clamp a piece of flat bar across the two bearing locations and bolt bearings on that? It's adjustable to find the sweet spot if there is one. Maybe a waste of time too?

 

Thinking about this, it seems the lack of power issue is from too much resistance of the side load on the screws. Imagine the screw is a wheel, like when you are crabbing sideways. The helix is the tread acting like paddles. Both are driving towards each other when attempting to go forward so much of the power is being used up by them trying to crush into each other or trying to separate when spinning in reverse. Getting that pitch of the helix right was a difficult problem to solve from the beginning. Unfortunately for the time being, like @8ntruck wrote, more spiral per foot will propel it better fore and aft because of less paddle action sideways and more screwing action. The pitch you did for them looked good and didn't seem to be too aggressive but maybe it is.     More screwing action and faster speed might be the ticket for the drawing board ?

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by wallfish

[Oldskool 6,644]

51 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Trying it on a slicker surface like deep snow might produce a better result is my guess too. What we need to help figure out for the time being is how to get it to run on ice with the current spiral configuration so you can make the fishing derby happen! 

  Do you have a spot in the yard to hose down by day and freeze overnight to make a "test track"?

Could sharpening the edges be enough to dig in the ice to propel it forward? Have you tried any load changes yet on the test runs?

Could going smaller on the front axle between the bearings to put a little angle on the screws work to add more forward action force? Maybe try something quick and temporary first to see if that helps? Maybe clamp a piece of flat bar across the two bearing locations and bolt bearings on that? It's adjustable to find the sweet spot if there is one. Maybe a waste of time too?

 

Thinking about this, it seems the lack of power issue is from too much resistance of the side load on the screws. Imagine the screw is a wheel, like when you are crabbing sideways. The helix is the tread acting like paddles. Both are driving towards each other when attempting to go forward so much of the power is being used up by them trying to crush into each other or trying to separate when spinning in reverse. Getting that pitch of the helix right was a difficult problem to solve from the beginning. Unfortunately for the time being, like @8ntruck wrote, more spiral per foot will propel it better fore and aft because of less paddle action sideways and more screwing action. The pitch you did for them looked good and didn't seem to be too aggressive but maybe it is.     More screwing action and faster speed might be the ticket for the drawing board ?

 

I agree frozen ground would be better and probably frozen crusty snow even better then that. We dont have low enough temps here at the moment to get  "optimum"  conditions. Today I will try to find out if its nose heavy or not. That might give me info to work from. When in the soft gravel it wants to go forward but I run out of power. I can get about a foot out of it before the drive units bypass. It does want to go sideways more so then forward. Also it will turn left or right easier then forward. I also think that until I have enough power to the screws so they dont stop turning in the middle of a test I will have a false sense of any other underlying issues

[Oldskool 6,644]

Update on the balance point 

It balances out at just about the center. So fairly even other then my weight which is centered at 20in behind the balance point. So I think I can rule out it wanting to climb up hill all the time

[Oldskool 6,644]

I'm seriously thinking of ordering a different pair of sprockets. 

 

At the moment I have

20 tooth, 5.19" drive sprockets

40 tooth, 9.98" driven sprockets

turning the 17.25" screws.

 

My thought is to go with a

10 tooth, 2.76" drive sprocket

to gain some power.

 

Any thoughts?

[ebinmaine 67,502]

So cut the top speed way down in favor of acceleration?

[Oldskool 6,644]

25 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

So cut the top speed way down in favor of acceleration?

How can I cut 0 mph down any lower? Im thinking of doing it in favor of some movement.