Project "Snow Drift"

[8ntruck 6,998]

Just a couple of thoughts:  Seems like less pitch on the helix would produce more axial (driving) force and less side (digging) force.  Larger diameter drums would also increase ground contact of the helix.

 

Might have something to do with the gravel surface acting like a bed of ball bearings that move across each other very easily?

[Stormin 9,981]

23 hours ago, Oldskool said:

 

How about making a weight box to fit were you have that shackle. Something big enough for a bag of sand or two or concrete blocks. I'd do that before I'd do anything else.

[Oldskool 6,643]

17 minutes ago, Ted Gardner said:

I have no doubt that it will work.  You've got it !  Just a little aggravating at this point. More weight to the front to off set your weight. Screw not getting full contact to ground? Like it was trying to push up hill. Maybe get someone to set on front of hood for a quick try. Not trying to be a wise guy just throwing it out there.

I may have someone try sitting on either end. Maybe both? I have the oil leak taken care of and the starting issue. I tried to again. I think now my next major issue is the secondary drive belts for the units. They are slipping. With that issue I'm not sure if I'm getting full motion from them. I have to wonder if the slippage is what's making it dig in. Its intermittently fighting one side or the other constantly.

[Oldskool 6,643]

23 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Just a couple of thoughts:  Seems like less pitch on the helix would produce more axial (driving) force and less side (digging) force.  Larger diameter drums would also increase ground contact of the helix.

 

Might have something to do with the gravel surface acting like a bed of ball bearings that move across each other very easily?

It could be. I think I see what you are getting at. Its could be dragging more then actually pulling?  The original was close to this design though. It weighed 3000lbs. This is about 1/4 of that. Some could be my drive belt issue?

[Stormin 9,981]

10 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

 Some could be my drive belt issue?

 

I would say so. Have they stretched a touch?

 

Have you thought about all chain drive?

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Stormin

[Pullstart 62,834]

Maybe you need racing stripes and nitrous... mixed with overdriving the crap out of them screws?

[71_Bronco 1,072]

The weight thing makes a lot of sense (to me at least). With it being butt-end heavy, and the cones on the front, it may be trying to "climb" over the snow / gravel.

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Is there a way to find out the size of the drums and screw blades used on the original fordson?

 

 

[Oldskool 6,643]

Just now, Stormin said:

 

I would say so. Have they stretched a touch?

 

Have you thought about all chain drive?

 

The secondary belts are slipping. I was thinking of adding another idler to increase belt to pulley engagement. I was just thinking chain drive as well

[Pullstart 62,834]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Is there a way to find out the size of the drums and screw blades used on the original fordson?

 

 

use an eyecrometer to compare the difference in the seat pan, or a known dimension?

[Oldskool 6,643]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

Is there a way to find out the size of the drums and screw blades used on the original fordson?

 

 

I'm sure I could call the museum that has one and ask. 

[Oldskool 6,643]

My guess would be 28 to 30in with a 3/4 x2 blade. But that's just a guess

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Just few thoughts 

if i read correct it more diggs than move.

have you other sprockets aside to reduce the rotation speed?

 

maybe they need lower rotation speed at beginning to break the Stop force.

if the breakforce is over a higher speed may be possible, but as far as i read, it rotates at beginning too fast, that it firstly begin to dig instead to rip the brakeforce of the whole Surface to move.

 

Referending on Collins Setup you have a much steeper spindle.

He works with Hydraulic Drives, what can transmit lot more of Power than a Belt ( and even smoother on beginning)

What is your actual transmission ratio? 1:2 i guess ?

So maybe a changed ( larger) Sprockets on the drums will do the Trick.

i would try another transmission ratio 1:4 or 1:8 to slowdown the digging and have more time to rip the Surface breakforce.

 

 

another thing can may be an unbalance between front to Rear ratio.

If you have an Swing Frame, you can use it by a rope pulley to try to lift it for a balance Checking.

 

I hope my thoughts will not be too complex described.

[ebinmaine 67,422]

11 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

13 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

The secondary belts are slipping. I was thinking of adding another idler to increase belt to pulley engagement. I was just thinking chain drive as well

 

 

 

What are the pulley sizes and belt width?

 

Judging by what I've seen of the videos on those tractors I would say your probably pretty close with that guess.

 

I have to admit I'm really wondering if your machine is too lightweight...

 

700 lb or whatever it happens to be sounds like a pretty fair amount but in reality that's not all that much when you divide it out by the linear inches of how many of your screw blades are on the ground.

I do realize full well that most of the pieces in gravel are not round but to some extent that will act like an oddly shaped version of a ball bearing and let the screws just roll through.

 

 

What exactly did it do on concrete and why don't you think it would appreciate ice?

[Oldskool 6,643]

12 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Just few thoughts 

if i read correct it more diggs than move.

have you other sprockets aside to reduce the rotation speed?

 

maybe they need lower rotation speed at beginning to break the Stop force.

if the breakforce is over a higher speed may be possible, but as far as i read, it rotates at beginning too fast, that it firstly begin to dig instead to rip the brakeforce of the whole Surface to move.

 

Referending on Collins Setup you have a much steeper spindle.

He works with Hydraulic Drives, what can transmit lot more of Power than a Belt ( and even smoother on beginning)

What is your actual transmission ratio? 1:2 i guess ?

So maybe a changed ( larger) Sprockets on the drums will do the Trick.

i would try another transmission ratio 1:4 or 1:8 to slowdown the digging and have more time to rip the Surface breakforce.

 

 

another thing can may be an unbalance between front to Rear ratio.

If you have an Swing Frame, you can use it by a rope pulley to try to lift it for a balance Checking.

 

I hope my thoughts will not be too complex described.

My transaxle I believe is about 15:1 with a chain reduction of about 2:1. I can creep the drive units easily.. as far as bigger sprocket on the tank goes I dont have much more room for ground clearance issues. I do have a chain fall from the ceiling.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

3 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

maybe they need lower rotation speed at beginning to break the Stop force.

if the breakforce is over a higher speed may be possible, but as far as i read, it rotates at beginning too fast, that it firstly begin to dig instead to rip the brakeforce of the whole Surface to move.

 

If my memory serves me right, I think @Oldskool used a transmission out of a zero-turn mower. If that's true, can't he just move the levers forward a little bit to get a slower rotating speed? I can't imagine that his drivetain would be an on / off switch

[Oldskool 6,643]

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

What are the pulley sizes and belt width?

 

Judging by what I've seen of the videos on those tractors I would say your probably pretty close with that guess.

 

I have to admit I'm really wondering if your machine is too lightweight...

 

700 lb or whatever it happens to be sounds like a pretty fair amount but in reality that's not all that much when you divide it out by the linear inches of how many of your screw blades are on the ground.

I do realize full well that most of the pieces in gravel are not round but to some extent that will act like an oddly shaped version of a ball bearing and let the screws just roll through.

 

 

What exactly did it do on concrete and why don't you think it would appreciate ice?

1/2 ,belt. Pulleys 3.5 to 4 in approx. On concrete it would just spin

[Oldskool 6,643]

15 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

What are the pulley sizes and belt width?

I think more pulley contact may help a bit

[Stormin 9,981]

 How about toothed belts. Aka, timing belts?

[ebinmaine 67,422]

11 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

I think more pulley contact may help a bit

50% should be considered a MINIMUM

[Oldskool 6,643]

4 minutes ago, Stormin said:

 How about toothed belts. Aka, timing belts?

Thats  what was on the zero turn originally. You get better grip with those?

[Oldskool 6,643]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

50% should be considered a MINIMUM

Then I am at minimum at the moment

[ebinmaine 67,422]

14 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

1/2 ,belt. Pulleys 3.5 to 4 in approx. On concrete it would just SPIN

NO fore and aft??

Grab about 4 of your most forgiving neighbors and use them for experimentation ballast.  

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Just now, Oldskool said:

Then I am at minimum at the moment

1/2" or 4L belts are pretty limited above about 10 to 12 hp. 

[Oldskool 6,643]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

NO fore and aft??

Grab about 4 of your most forgiving neighbors and use them for experimentation ballast.  

Fore and aft?????? Ya lost me on what you're asking.