Time to build a new trail bomber

[Greentored 3,216]

I've had an absolute riot on this 654, and although she's in real rough shape and every moving part is shot, I just don't feel right hammering down on a good round hood anymore, so it's time to build another, less desirable chassis, then swap the engine, pulleys and tires over.

There's a B-100 chassis in the parts stash, and an 8 speed out of some 'mystery' Horse, which I yanked and split the cases on last night. Perfect candidate for a beater, as it's all there but pretty grungy. 

Unfortunately it's a 1" axle, 4 pinion setup. I understand the 4 pinion diffs arent the beefiest, but this one will be locked for trail use. How do you all feel about the 1" axles, especially being in a locked situation? Think it'd hold up, or do I need to abandon ship and find one with 1 1/8" axles to start?

[ebinmaine 67,676]

3 hours ago, Greentored said:

How do you all feel about the 1" axles, especially being in a locked situation? Think it'd hold up, or do I need to abandon ship and find one with 1 1/8" axles

Given regular usage I'd say you'd be perfectly fine. I suppose it depends on how much you're going to hammer on that thing. One solid inch of steel is still quite a bit even though it isn't one and one eighth.

 

Worst you can do is try it and see what happens, right?

 

 

What exactly are you doing to lock it?

 

Welding something?

Point of the question was if you knew where there was a weak point you could weld that also....

[Pullstart 62,921]

Thinking out loud here... what about a sold axle, machined in the middle to accept a modified diff?  Keys instead of gears?  Look into the quad axle industry for a reasonable candidate?

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

I say, “build it”—“drive it like you stole it”—if it breaks, build it stronger.  You have nothing to lose...

 

 

of course unless it breaks when you are doing about 25mph and you hit a tree...😬

 

 

make sure you have an updated steering system 

[Greentored 3,216]

Thanks fellas! The big concern is being out in the middle of nowhere and having it crap out. Maybe I need to convince a friend that they need to build one, to have fun trail bombing together.   ....or tow me home

@pullstart I may look into a solid axle and some form of 'spool'- great idea!

The 3 speed in the 654 has given me zero problems, but it's not locked, and the machine itself is a lot lighter than the next one will be. Sure would miss the absolutely effortless wheelies- I mean, this thing comes up and rides the bars with zero 'clutch dump' needed

[Greentored 3,216]

Fall is a busy time of year, but managed to at least get a plan together. The old B100 chassis is the chosen one, and @Bert hooked me up with a couple 8 pinion 8 speeds. Busted the cases apart, flipped the pinions to lock it up, a quick clean and reassemble.

Snatched up a pretty decent, complete and running 701 yesterday, so 'mission aborted' putting the 654 back to stock and sold it complete the same day. A fella bought it to ride around the property with his kids, so although it doesn't appear to be going back to stock, she should have a much easier, happier life with her new owner.

[ebinmaine 67,676]

3 hours ago, Greentored said:

flipped the pinions to lock it up

Interesting idea that I haven't run across yet. 

Something you've done in the past or figured out?

I'll be super curious to see how that works out for you. 

 

I've considered locking one of mine but haven't done it yet because I do have a couple of sharp turns in the forest and I don't want to break stuff...

[Greentored 3,216]

7 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Interesting idea that I haven't run across yet. 

Something you've done in the past or figured out?

I'll be super curious to see how that works out for you. 

 

I've considered locking one of mine but haven't done it yet because I do have a couple of sharp turns in the forest and I don't want to break stuff...

Saw it on YouTube, so it must work! 🤣

Would have to think you’d be safe , maybe just keep watch of the hubs staying tight due to the additional stress on turns? 

[ebinmaine 67,676]

9 minutes ago, Greentored said:

Saw it on YouTube, so it must work! 🤣

Would have to think you’d be safe , maybe just keep watch of the hubs staying tight due to the additional stress on turns? 

On a fairly wide turn it would make nearly no difference whatsoever.

Just a minor scrubbing of the outside Tire.

 

I've done well so far getting in and out of the forest and really haven't had anything other than minor slippage but it would be handy on occasion. 

 

 

If you happen to remember where you saw that I'd love to see the link and the video...

[Greentored 3,216]

Found one of the vids here. This guy welds them instead but talks about flipping them (he feels it’s not strong). I’ll try to dig up where guys were talking about just flipping the opposing pinions. 
 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Greentored

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I have a 4wd NH and like most is actually just a 1 wheel drive with the front disengaged. With the front engaged it becomes a 2 wheel drive, one in the rear and one in the front!   But when I lock the rear things happen!  I'm a huge fan of being able to lock the rear!  My new to me Bolens has an adjustable limited slip rear end.  I haven't tested it yet but I'm thinking I will like it when needed.  I tend to think that a serious tractor will have a lockable rear and I think for my use as a tractor and not a lawnmower I'd prefer a locked rear over a differential.  I could be wrong but I'd be willing to find out.

[Greentored 3,216]

@DennisThornton 100% agree! If it weren’t for tearing up the yard during basic work, I’d lock every stinkin one! 
REALLY want to lock the 8 speed in Hoss and see how it’d yank the plow, but it gets used for many things, much of which requires tight maneuvers on decent lawn. 

[ebinmaine 67,676]

@DennisThornton

Wheelhorses had limited slip diffs in some tractors  from 67 to 70 or so. 

 

Trina's Pig Pen 867 has it and it CLEARLY has more traction than my open diff C160. 

I say that because her tractor with her on it weighs HUNDREDS of pounds less than mine and has GREAT winter plowing traction. 

 

One of the fellas across the pond machined up a (lever controlled?) Locker. 

 

@Greentored I just watched that. 

 

I find it interesting that he welded up a diff that was already limited slip... Seems a bit pointless but what do I know.....

[DennisThornton 4,769]

28 minutes ago, Greentored said:

@DennisThornton 100% agree! If it weren’t for tearing up the yard during basic work, I’d lock every stinkin one! 
REALLY want to lock the 8 speed in Hoss and see how it’d yank the plow, but it gets used for many things, much of which requires tight maneuvers on decent lawn. 

Sometimes on my NH I notice that I'm tearing up the grass so I disengage the front.  The rear will disengage itself somehow but I'm sure it would otherwise really tear up the lawn!  I don't care in the woods or snow, I just want to get out!

[DennisThornton 4,769]

12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@DennisThornton

Wheelhorses had limited slip diffs in some tractors  from 67 to 70 or so. 

 

Trina's Pig Pen 867 has it and it CLEARLY has more traction than my open diff C160. 

I say that because her tractor with her on it weighs HUNDREDS of pounds less than mine and has GREAT winter plowing traction. 

 

One of the fellas across the pond machined up a (lever controlled?) Locker. 

 

@Greentored I just watched that. 

 

I find it interesting that he welded up a diff that was already limited slip... Seems a bit pointless but what do I know.....

I have a Raider that I think might have limited slip...  Or maybe it's 10 pinion, I can't remember...

I haven't watched the vid but I too would wonder why lock a limited?

 

By the way my friend, to emphasize, when my NH fails to move forward I check the front drive, then I lock the rear, then I moves!  There's lots of times making both rears turn is better than one rear and one front!  Now that changes when the FEL is loaded!  I suspect that is why FWD became popular!  The front loads up and take a lot of weight off the rears and you go nowhere!  No doubt the 4wd helps but so does a rear 2wd when BOTH tires help!

[ebinmaine 67,676]

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

might have limited slip...  Or maybe it's 10 pinion

I'm thinking 10 pinion is limited...

 

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

rear 2wd when BOTH tires help

Agreed 👍

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm thinking 10 pinion is limited...

 

Agreed 👍

I'm thinking 10 pinion is limited...

 

Right after I posted I thought the same...

[Pullstart 62,921]

EB.  I think with loaded tires, it would not be so easy on stuff for you to do this locking method.  Think of a quad though....  They have a solid rear axle and just slip a tire.  I think they have much more weight centered / over the front to allow slippage.  Make ultimate traction (loaded weighted tires) and add zero slip (locked diff) and you’ll find trouble.  
 

Scott... I’m happy for all your posts above, ‘Cept you selling the 654!

[Pullstart 62,921]

12 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

@DennisThornton

Wheelhorses had limited slip diffs in some tractors  from 67 to 70 or so. 

 

Trina's Pig Pen 867 has it and it CLEARLY has more traction than my open diff C160. 

I say that because her tractor with her on it weighs HUNDREDS of pounds less than mine and has GREAT winter plowing traction. 

 

One of the fellas across the pond machined up a (lever controlled?) Locker. 

 

@Greentored I just watched that. 

 

I find it interesting that he welded up a diff that was already limited slip... Seems a bit pointless but what do I know.....

I believe that was @meadowfield Mark, but it was for one of his 4x4 builds where he drove one case off the other via the brake shaft.  That allowed room to remove the gear sets that were upstream of the brake shaft and fit in the locking lever 

 

I’ve wondered about setting up a GM Gov-lock style locker in a WH, just haven’t gotten around to diving into that yet.  It sounds easy, but I feel like it’ll be a pain to execute.

[meadowfield 2,570]

tis true - was I that made a remote locking diff...

 

 

 

 

and it still works well

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,676]

4 minutes ago, meadowfield said:

remote locking diff

Lovely work Sir

[Greentored 3,216]

Incredible work @meadowfield !!  Great discussion on ways to lock our Horses on demand/when needed versus dragging an inside tire and tearing things up when not needed.

I have spent some time in the brain, trying to think a design for a locker of sorts that could be a true bolt on design, installed in place of one hub- something along the lines of @pullstart GM gov-loc idea, or even a small clutch pack with a way to lock and unlock it. This would require splitting the trans cases and locking the pinions, and rely on the 'hub conversion' for slip. The downside to a design like this would be that in the unlocked position, it would drive only one tire, not split it between the two like a oem differential design.

When things like this get in my head, I have been known to obsess over it, suddenly lock myself in the shop, skip meals and sleep, and come out the other side with a finished product. She calls it 'squirrel', ADHD or something like that

Don't be surprised if I disappear one weekend and suddenly post up a crude yet functional first design......

Edited December 2, 2020 by Greentored

[Pullstart 62,921]

I believe I read in “Straight From the Horses Mouth” that original Pond Walk Away and RJ25/35 tractors were set up like that, with ratcheting hubs and reverse ratcheting as well.  Keep in mind, those ones didn’t have brakes.

[Greentored 3,216]

23 hours ago, pullstart said:

 

Scott... I’m happy for all your posts above, ‘Cept you selling the 654!

Eh, that dang thing called 'responsibility' is overrated 

Really didn't want to, but she was about to be put back to stock and the Simplicity I had up for sale was gonna help catch up on a couple bills.

...then the 701 came along and monkey wrenched all the plans.

And I don't regret finding that gem one tiny bit!

[ebinmaine 67,676]

29 minutes ago, Greentored said:

, that dang thing called 'responsibility' is overrated

Flat disgusting is what it is.

 

 

I tell people jokingly but also seriously at the same time that I tried being a grown up for a couple decades and I really didn't like it at all so I reverted back to being somewhere between the ages of five and seven. 

 

I pay some of my bills, most of the time, and just hope for the best...

 

 

 

 

 

I know there's been a couple threads about locking or limited slip in the past and the idea always just fascinates me to no end.

 

It is to some extent practical for me where I have such a rough terrain but the engineering and thought processes are what really gets me.  

 

If I had a machine shop I'd be dangerous!

 

I've wondered if there was some sort of a way to replace the pinion gears inside of an eight-speed with a set of clutches or a large circular spring.....