Motion Control linkage leak

[Purewater Jon 4]

Hello!  I have been reading posts for a few years as I’ve tinkered with my two great wheel horses.  I have a 1968 Charger 12 auto with a leak coming from the motion control linkage, as well as the tow valve being seized up, lastly, the parking brake is not locking up the transaxle.  My primary concern is the leakage though.  Do I need to remove the pump and motor to get at this, or can one replace it with them in place and just remove the linkage pieces?  I suspect if I have to remove them, then fixing the parking brake makes sense, and maybe I can find a way to free up that tow valve.  I have it soaking in PB blaster per a comment on that issue from a few years ago.   By the way, my other horse is a C-81.   Attachments include a grader blade, a dozer blade, 2 decks and a cultivator.  Looking for a tiller for the Charger.

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Your charger is model 1-7231 indicating it has the Sundstrand Hydro-Gear Model 90-2046 power system.  You MAY be able to get at the SEAL and/or O-RINGS  behind the NYLON CAM...that's what is leaking.  It comes apart like this: This is SO MUCH easier to do if pump is off the tractor...  As for the TOW VALVE...take it off and clean up the interior stem ...as in pics here.

Repair of the parking brake will require splitting the gearbox... to replace the PARKING PAWL.  There are TWO types of Parking Pawls...yours would be part # 5966 and they work exactly the same.  

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by daveoman1966
sp

[pfrederi 17,617]

Dave is right you MAY be able to do it on the tractor...but you would have to be nimble...and lucky.  You are going to need a 12 pt 1/4" socket to get the 3 bolts out. If your motion control has the 2 O rings shown on Daves picture above, pm me you address i will send them to you.  I use a square one for the larger ring  easier to keep in place when installing. 

[WHX?? 48,654]

Sounds like the guys have you covered so I'll just

[Achto 27,457]

Yep can't think of anything else to add, so

[oldredrider 2,548]

You may want to reconsider a tiller on the Charger. Tillers will "push" a tractor and are more suited to the gear drive models.

[Purewater Jon 4]

Thank you Dave, and everyone!  The removal of the pump is the path I’ll follow, and get started on tomorrow.  Those photos make the process so much clearer than the line drawings I’d been looking at. Once I remove the pump, I’ll split the transaxle and have a look at that parking brake.  While I’ve got her that far disassembled, are there other things I should consider doing to either the pump or transaxle?  
 

one last item on the tractor is electrical, so I probably should put it in that section, but I’ll ask here.  The generator/starter only puts out 7.4 volts, so the battery drains after awhile.  The starter motor turns nicely, so I don’t think the windings are bad, but I get 7 volts directly off the generator and also off the two legs of the rectifier (black box on top of generator). The rectifier (if that’s what it is) has thee lugs, only 2 of which are wired, the 3rd is not connected to anything.  There is 7 volts on that lug as well as the middle lug, the third lug must be ground, so no voltage.  Should I get a new rectifier or take the generator to get rebuilt?

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Inasmuch as you are gonna split the gearbox to examine the PARKIN PAWL, it'll be easier to just remove the ENTIRE Hydro-Gear from the gearbox, with pump attached.  Once you get the Hydro-Gear removed, there'll be some critical inspecitons to be made of it.  Specifically, the wear conditon of the  (1) Nine BRASS Piston Slippers (2) THRUST Washer (3) CHARGE PUMP housing, (4) GEROTOR Set (5) Base of CYLINDER BLOCK, etc.   If these show signs of wear...certainly after 50 years, they will...Get yerself some elbow grease to restore the metal-to-metal surfaces.  Here is a sample of what to look for. 

BTW...  I have these 5 critical items on-the-shelf ready to go. SUNDSTRAND Fix Hydr-Gear.pdf       

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

LJ Fluid power has the kit to put it

all back together.

 

T😎

[953 nut 54,886]

8 hours ago, Purewater Jon said:

 The generator/starter only puts out 7.4 volts, so the battery drains after awhile.  The starter motor turns nicely, so I don’t think the windings are bad, but I get 7 volts directly off the generator and also off the two legs of the rectifier (black box on top of generator). The rectifier (if that’s what it is) has thee lugs, only 2 of which are wired, the 3rd is not connected to anything.  There is 7 volts on that lug as well as the middle lug, the third lug must be ground, so no voltage.  Should I get a new rectifier or take the generator to get rebuilt?

It is probably not the fault of the voltage regulator, they tend to fail to the high voltage side rather than low voltage. Take a couple minutes to inspect, clean and tighten all electrical connections including grounds.  The start windings and the generator windings are separate so ability to start doesn't imply ability to charge.

With engine running should be between 13.5 and about 14.5.  If voltage while running is the same as off then do this quick test.  Take a small wire hook one end to a good ground and the other touch to the F (field) terminal on the generator.  You may hear the engine slow a bit and the voltage should go up to about 14.  If it does your problem is in the voltage regulator.  if there is no improvement then the problem is most likely with in the generator itself

[pfrederi 17,617]

Is there a 4th lug on the bottom of the regulator?  If there is a wire should run from there to The A terminal on the generator.  It is confusing since that wire doesn't show up on the wiring diagrams in the owners manuals.  (It was a Kohler part and delivered as part of the engine/starter Generator package).

 

3 or 4 terminal regulators may be used on these units.  If is a three terminal regulator they will be marked F Field, BAT, and GEN. and all must have a wire connected to them.     If it is a 4 Terminal.  The on  the bottom may be marked GEN or A (for armature) the three up top will be F  BAT and L Load.  The Load one may or may not be used usually runs to the lighter or light switch.

 

More info on you hydro unit here

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by pfrederi

[Purewater Jon 4]

I greatly appreciate all the incredibly useful information!  It’s a beautiful day to be working on her here in Southern Wisconsin.  I must confess, I am a bit leery of cracking into that pump!  LOL. There’s this little voice that says “hey, it’s just a leak, just add more atf and forget about it!”  But I’ll try not to listen to that.  Regarding the generator, I started her up and had the same 7v.  Grounded the F terminal and got 17.4 v.  Removed the ground and got 10.2 v.  It definitely bogged the engine down.  I am going to check all the grounds to make sure they’re solid.  I was reading sanding the contacts on the regulator is a good idea too.  It is a 4 terminal with the F not being used.  The dash has a hole for a amp meter, and the lights seem to be driven off a green wire coming from the engine (stator?) vs off the battery (pic 2). I wonder if I could drive an amp meter off the F terminal?  

Edited October 1, 2020 by Purewater Jon

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,018]

This is the only Kohler service manual I've seen that includes the starter/generator

Garry

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

Southern Wisconsin? How far are you from the Dells?

[Purewater Jon 4]

Thanks Gary,  That is perfect for wiring the ampmeter in.

 

[Purewater Jon 4]

Im outside Belleville, south of Madison about 15 miles, so about an hour south of the Dells

 

[pfrederi 17,617]

There is no stator behind the flywheel on an S/G engne so power from lights has to come from battery Ignition switch or L terminal of the regulator.  Just t be sure here what is the spec number of your engine

 

Also I would go with a volt meter as opposed to ammeter.  A failed ammeter is a show stopper...a failed volt meter a inconvenience.

[Purewater Jon 4]

I will trace those wires and go with a volt meter.  Here’s my engine info. 

[Purewater Jon 4]

Well, the tow valve has been a major pain, looking forward thoughts.  The roll pin had been sheared off at some point in the past.  I have had it soaking with PB  blaster for 2 weeks and it still will not budge. I am currently using the collar to apply upward pressure to the shaft (a) from the earlier posts but is will not budge. It’s been chewed up quite an bit and my efforts have only worsened it. Not sure how to pull the cork out of this bottle. Thoughts? Looking in from the side (2nd picture) I can see the bottom of the shaft/valve assembly.  

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Forget about turning that round center shaft (a) and drive that 'NAIL' out of the round shaft (a)...and remove that top WASHER.  With those off, put a crescent wrench on the big NUT and give it a good whack...to break it loose.  Your vise grips MAY work, but will also chew up the Hex Nut sides.  

[Purewater Jon 4]

Thanks,  I have been whacking it on the side of shaft a and it seems to move a very little bit.  Maybe I’m. No whacking kit hard enough?  Ok. I’ll remove my home made “puller” and give her another whack, or two, or 3..100 LOL. 

I hit it with heat from a propane torch for a while as well.  Very VERY stuck.  I saw a posting about a guy with a gt14 having the same issue, and his looked so corroded when he got it out.   Looking into mine from the side, it looks wonderfully clean, but I suspect that top o-ring must have been effective at keeping water out, but that corroded the upper shaft.  

[Purewater Jon 4]

Well, whacking didn’t help things, other than maybe make things so bad that I had to resort to more extreme measures (LOL).  Having broken off the stem off the shaft, I drilled in and threaded a 5/16 harden bolt in and with a makeshift puller and was able to get her out finally! Anyone know where I can find a replacement shaft?

[pfrederi 17,617]

Try A to Z tractor in the vendors section

[Purewater Jon 4]

It occurs to me, I should thank everyone for your assistance.  She’s running well and pushing snow like a champ!

 

[cschannuth 3,816]

A lot of good info here.