416-8/P16 Onan Surgeing

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

You’re right. I am still trying to get accustomed to Onan engines. I was just talking to Bill D.  He seems to think that it sounds like an ignition module. So my plan is to hook up a plug tester and see if I lose spark.  I’m willing to try most anything at this point

[lynnmor 7,487]

11 minutes ago, RJ Hamner said:

You’re right. I am still trying to get accustomed to Onan engines. I was just talking to Bill D.  He seems to think that it sounds like an ignition module. So my plan is to hook up a plug tester and see if I lose spark.  I’m willing to try most anything at this point

Good place to start.  Be sure to use the Onan manual, available on this site, to test the module and coil.

[Bill D 2,052]

You might try running a wire from the positive terminal on the battery directly to the coil.  That would bypass anything in the wiring harness that could make the engine shut down.  If the module has failed it will still shut down. Bill

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

I think we may be making progress.

I ran two different tests

Test 1: take a reading by attaching the leads to both sides of the coil and get a reading on the Ohm (3.3)((part 2 of the test comes later

Test 2: ran a lead from the + side of the battery to the + side of the coil.  Started engine and let run till it quit (there was no spark)

Part 2 of test 1 was as soon as the engine quits retest the Ohm on the coil (it showed infinity)  If you keep watching the meter until the coil cools you get a reading again (4.0)

 

So I guess I have to order a new coil

[Bill D 2,052]

Swap the coil from your other Onan and see if that solves the problem.  You can order a replacement coil later.  Glad you found the problem.  Bill

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

Too late. The new one is supposed to get here tomorrow 

[lynnmor 7,487]

When you get the new coil you may need instructions on installing it, read this thread.

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

When you get the new coil you may need instructions on installing it, read this thread.

Got it. Thanks Again!!!!!

[Tuneup 1,433]

Nicely done! So satisfying to locate the actual failure instead of logically replacing parts.

[Ed Kennell 39,770]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, RJ Hamner said:

I think we may be making progress.

I ran two different tests

Test 1: take a reading by attaching the leads to both sides of the coil and get a reading on the Ohm (3.3)((part 2 of the test comes later

Test 2: ran a lead from the + side of the battery to the + side of the coil.  Started engine and let run till it quit (there was no spark)

Part 2 of test 1 was as soon as the engine quits retest the Ohm on the coil (it showed infinity)  If you keep watching the meter until the coil cools you get a reading again (4.0)

 

So I guess I have to order a new coil

    Good test,  It's clear your coil is breaking down with temp.    Just be aware some new parts are not perfect.  

                                                            

1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

Nicely done! So satisfying to locate the actual failure instead of logically replacing parts.

 

 

Agreed, it is nice to see component testing instead of just throwing new parts and $ at a problem.

 

21 hours ago, Bill D said:

Swap the coil from your other Onan and see if that solves the problem.  You can order a replacement coil later.  Glad you found the problem.  Bill

 

If available, I always use this process to find a problem.         

[tom2p 2,394]

hmmm ... wondering if I have a bad coil on one of my 416-H

 

i don't know the history on this 416-H  - had it for around a year or so  (have another 416-H for around 20 years with no issues)

 

it will quit / shut down instantly while I am cutting grass - but then starts immediately 

one wire connection on the regulator was loose - tightened the tab and then did not have the problem later that day or the next time I cut grass - but the problem surfaced again the next time I cut grass ... but then did not happen the last time I cut grass this past weekend  ... smh ... 

 

does not appear to be PTO switch related - I replaced the PTO switches and removed the slop from the pivot  (plus I quickly released PTO lever when engine quit and it made no difference)

in addition to coil also wondering if it could be the seat switch 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by tom2p

[tom2p 2,394]

3 hours ago, Tuneup said:

Nicely done! So satisfying to locate the actual failure instead of logically replacing parts.

that's my usual MO  lol

 

[lynnmor 7,487]

5 hours ago, tom2p said:

hmmm ... wondering if I have a bad coil on one of my 416-H

 

i don't know the history on this 416-H  - had it for around a year or so  (have another 416-H for around 20 years with no issues)

 

it will quit / shut down instantly while I am cutting grass - but then starts immediately 

one wire connection on the regulator was loose - tightened the tab and then did not have the problem later that day or the next time I cut grass - but the problem surfaced again the next time I cut grass ... but then did not happen the last time I cut grass this past weekend  ... smh ... 

 

does not appear to be PTO switch related - I replaced the PTO switches and removed the slop from the pivot  (plus I quickly released PTO lever when engine quit and it made no difference)

in addition to coil also wondering if it could be the seat switch 

 

 

I had one coil and one ignition module causing shutdown problems.  The pathetic 9 pin white connector caused more problems than anything else.

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

We now have success

Got the new coil over the weekend but (the boss said) some yard work came first.

Got some time this afternoon and got it installed according to the instructions.  Thanks @lynnmor

While I was waiting for the coil I found this really slick plug wire crimping tool and made new plug wires to replace the old vermin chewed ones.

Fired her up and she purred for about 20 minutes without a problem

 

And life is good

[lynnmor 7,487]

Great!

 

Good things come to those that wait........ on themselves.

[Bill D 2,052]

Any pictures of the crimper for the plug wires?

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

23 minutes ago, Bill D said:

Any pictures of the crimper for the plug wires?

It's called an"iCrimp model AP-2048"

iCrimp is a branch of iSWISS.  I found it on Amazon but several places had it listed.

It's pretty simple to use.....even I couldn't screw it up

[Bill D 2,052]

Very nice.  Did you make solid core plug wires?  The originals were a carbon core.  

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

I use solid wire (harder to find these days).

Im not too worried about the static on the surround sound stereo while I mow

[Bill D 2,052]

I have an ideal crimpmaster crimper.  I need a need to get the right set of jaws for plug wires.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Bill D

[RJ Hamner 1,017]

12 hours ago, Bill D said:

I have an ideal crimpmaster crimper.  I need a need to get the right set of jaws for plug wires.

I have two of those one for tractor wiring and one for Cat 6 internet stuff cause I got tired of switching out the inserts
Had looked several times for the inserts for plug wires with no luck. I was looking again when I found the iSwiss which are more expensive but then found the iCrimp which are made by the same company but a little cheaper. 
Actually a lot cheaper if I had bought another Ideal with the correct spark plug inserts