Chipper/shredder quandry

[8ntruck 6,991]

I got this chipper/shredder new in the late 90's when we were living on 5 acres in Kentucky.  It was one of those use two or three times a year type of tools.  In 2003, we moved to a house in the city in Missouri.  Used it there a couple of times, then parked it in the garage.

 

I loaded it on the truck to take to our place in Michigan today.  Just for kicks, I gave the starter rope a couple of pulls.  The 5 horse B&S spun over freely, but no fire.  Not too surprised, as there were just dregs in the gas tank.  I gave it a shot of carb cleaner, and it fired on the first pull.  At least it has spark.  The fuel system is probably gummed up.

 

Two choices:

 

A - Clean out the fuel system and make a draw bar so I can pull it around with my WH.

 

B - Shelf the 5 HB Briggs, and build a Tach-O-Matic mount so I can use the 14 horse Kohler in my WH to run it.

 

Comments?  Opinions?

 

Choice A will be the quickest way to get it back into action.

 

Choice B has the highest EF.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,309]

C. Do both. 

Get it going so you can use it now. 

Then build a mount and do a thread so I can see how you did it. I'd love to have the 16 horse power my own. 

[lynnmor 7,302]

I bought a used one that is much the same but it has an 8HP Briggs.  The previous owner made a tongue that attaches at the feet and has a trailer coupler at the opposite end.

 

The fuel system is simple, the gas tank is the carburetor bowl.  Clean the tank and the carb, then in the future run the tank dry when you are done.

 

I like disconnecting from the tractor and getting out of harms way while processing the brush.

[JohnD 145]

Late '90s you'll need to add a fuel preservative (Stabil or many others) instead of running it dry.  Long term storage can be another issue, as you've figured out from the old gas.  

 

Carbs are pretty cheap these days, so that's an easy option if cleaning it doesn't do it. 

 

[8ntruck 6,991]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

C. Do both. 

Get it going so you can use it now. 

Then build a mount and do a thread so I can see how you did it. I'd love to have the 16 horse power my own. 

Or choice D - replace the 5 hp Briggs with a hydraulic motor driven through hoses by a pump run off of the PTO on the tractor.  This would require a pump/tank assembly on the front Tach-O-Matic.  To @lynnmor point, this set up would allow some distance between the tractor and the chipper/shredder.

 

This would also allow sharing of the hydraulic pump with other accessories - such as a log splitter.  A good start for this option would be a log splitter with a blown engine.

[R Scheer 502]

I have to ask how often you'll be using it.  A couple of times a year I'd go with Plan A.

 

My only concern with plan B is if it jams, you might stall the 5 hp Briggs without causing major damage, with 14 hp Kohler you might find the weak spot in your chipper.  If there's a shear pin or something similar in the chipper, then I would have no issue.

[DET 105]

I think R Sheer makes a very good point about plan B.

[953 nut 55,099]

12 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

 

A - Clean out the fuel system and make a draw bar so I can pull it around with my WH.

 

B - Shelf the 5 HB Briggs, and build a Tach-O-Matic mount so I can use the 14 horse Kohler in my WH to run it.

Probably Plan A is the most likely to be successful. I looked at my Troybilt chipper with the same idea as your plan B and found that the B&S engine has a tapered shaft and it would require an extensive amount of fabrication to mount a shaft with the correct taper and bearings and a drive pulley.       The shaft would also have to have a flywheel mounted on it to take up the shock that would be felt as each branch was inserted. The time spent on converting something I wouldn't use very often seemed a bit ridiculous to me.

[CCW 1,292]

10 hours ago, R Scheer said:

I have to ask how often you'll be using it.  A couple of times a year I'd go with Plan A.

 

My only concern with plan B is if it jams, you might stall the 5 hp Briggs without causing major damage, with 14 hp Kohler you might find the weak spot in your chipper.  If there's a shear pin or something similar in the chipper, then I would have no issue.

 

Keep in mind that once you modify the equipment you own all the liability.  If the B&S does the job why fix what ain't broke.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

I would go firstly plan A, because the Quickest,

after that in next seasonbreak realize plan B.

that both are the sensefulliest scenario‘s in my opinion.

don‘t forget the loss of transforming 2 times if you like to rework it to Hydraulics.

That rework is the most demanding but also the expensivest

and don‘t underestimate the needed Force, 

you will need at least a doublepulley to transmit the load.
a single belt will not last long.

 

[953 nut 55,099]

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

don‘t underestimate the needed Force, 

you will need at least a doublepulley to transmit the load.
a single belt will not last long.

That is why the shaft should have a flywheel attached. Look at the PTO shaft on a farm tractor square baler, the impact from the baler would break the driveshaft without it. Once operating RPMs have been obtained the flywheel maintains the RPMs and softens the impact blows.

[8ntruck 6,991]

Good points about the flywheel and increase in power.

 

As far as the power increase goes, it is like hopping a car up.  Increase engine power, the wheels spin.  Bigger tires stop the wheel spin, but now u joints fail.  Stronger u joints fix that, but now the ring & pinion explode.  Stronger differential parts fix that, but the transmission gives up the ghost.  On and on it goes.  

 

@ebinmaine will probably experience some of this process if he ever gets Colossus into the testing stage.

 

I am a retired mechanical engineer.  I spent the last half of my career working with stamping presses.  It is the large flywheels on the presses that make them work - the big presses I worked with had 60,000 pound flywheel.  I have a good understanding of the value and job of flywheel.

 

The chipper/shredder weighs well over 100 pounds.  I'm going to guess that a good chunk of that weight is in the rotary cutting head.  You can really feel the mass of the rotating assembly in this machine when you pull the starting rope.  That weight is there partially to protect the crank on the Briggs, as it is direct drive.

 

The hydraulics idea is more of a thought expermerment.  Implementation would depend on cost and availability of the hydraulic components. 

 

Using a pressure compensated pump and proper pressure relief valves would protect the Kohler by shifting the pump into 'neutral' and venting excess pressure and oil flow back to tank in the event of a jam on the chopper head.   A gear type hydraulic motor with a flex coupling directly driving the chopper head combi ed with a  pressure operated bypass valve would probably be a good set up to drive the chopper.  If the motor got jammed, the bypass valve would dump the oil flow and pressure to tank.  The flexible coupling would also absorb some of the shock as well.  Heck, maybe I could put a couple of small block Chevy flywheels on the shaft as well.  These would help prevent stalling of the chopper head in the first place.  Balance of this assembly would be critical.  For fun, air could be blown into the starter gear teeth on the flywheel for interesting sound effects 

 

If you put 14 hp into a pump, you should see at least 10hp out of the driven hydraulic motor.  The pump, motor, and valves would need to be sized properly for the application.

 

I am leaning towards plan A.  Probably lowest cost and least resistance path to follow too.

 

Good discussion.  Thanks.

Edited September 21, 2020 by 8ntruck

[Tractorhead 9,064]

@953 nut

 That was exactly what i meant Richard 👍

 

Hydraulics is a fantastic medium for Transforming forces, 

with the right envoirement it is able to deliver brut force in smallest Area.

btw the most heavier Farm machines i know also have additional to a own flywheel a free running gear or shaft, 

to reduce also impact forces in push direction to gearbox.

So a abrasive movement so be reduced

or better be prevented to the Tractor‘s Gearbox and PTO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

@8ntruck

 

instead of a Bypass Valve, I would use a Hydraulic Damping Cylindre, that removes the Shocks out of the System.

That‘s a smarter solution in case fo constantly oil Flow on higher pressure.

The engage disengage works a lot smoother and the Load will be not interrupted that hard.

 

The stall case can be handled with a restricted Valve i.eg. Top it to 100Bar or less, when your System was able to deliver 120Bar.

I did a Hydraulic Conversion on my 212 Horse a year ago and build a Aluminum FEL for it.

I was surprised about the Force, that single belt can handle, but i payed with a harder wear if the system works hard.

A Belt a year was the result, but it was reliable and a huge help until i was able to built the second FEL for my Iseki.

 

The ability to have Hydraulic on the Tractor opens a lot of possibilities, but it‘s not the Cheapest solution what can be done.

But i think it‘s worth to thinkering about.

All together my 212 conversion was at 600€ what is similar to $.

You just have also to thinkering for an Oiltank depending on your needs

and maybe an oilcooler that is rated up to 180 Bar of pressure for a low Oil ammount.

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

That is why the shaft should have a flywheel attached. Look at the PTO shaft on a farm tractor square baler, the impact from the baler would break the driveshaft without it. Once operating RPMs have been obtained the flywheel maintains the RPMs and softens the impact blows.