Kohler M14 Rattling?

[TC10284 111]

Got a 414-8 with a Kohler Magnum M14. Started it up today after a few months of not being used. Checked oil prior - had plenty of clean oil. Heard rattling/knocking sound from engine. I used it for a while to let it warm up good but it still did it.  I'm pretty concerned something is loose inside the engine and is going to break or fall off soon. 

 

Is there anything I can do for it or does it require complete disassembly? 

 

Video:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AMmXVvSEF4riEdaq7

[Ed Kennell 38,022]

Are you sure it is engine noise.   I really couldn't tell from the video.     I would take the belt guard and belt off to make sure that isn't the source of the noise.    Then take the tins off and clean the cooling fins.     This has to be done anyway to do a rebuild.     You may get lucky and find the engine is OK.

[TC10284 111]

I am pretty positive it is. I circled around it and it's the only place I can hear it from. Seemed to be loudest on the exhaust side, down near where there is a cover that I think covers the connecting rod linkage? Doesn't matter if I press in the clutch and it gets faster when I open the throttle. 

It doesn't smoke or anything. 

Concerned it is connecting rod linkage or something else coming loose. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by TC10284

[JAinVA 4,619]

From your video I would suspect belt slapping the guard..I have 312-8 that makes the same noise.Belt guard is the issue on mine.Some times the sound gets louder when the clutch is pushed in if the pedal isn't pushed to the end of it's travel..Have someone push the clutch pedal down as far as it can go with he engine running and check to see if the belt at the engine pulley stops moving..If it is the belt slapping the guard you will  know it.

Edited August 29, 2020 by JAinVA

[953 nut 55,075]

11 hours ago, TC10284 said:

Seemed to be loudest on the exhaust side,

              Could it be a baffle inside the muffler that came loose over the winter? 

[oldlineman 1,481]

My 1989 414-8 has a loose baffle in the muffler makes noise on and off for a long while, I just where ear protection while mowing. Your noise may not be this. Tap on the muffler while running and see if noise changes not to hard though!

[Treepep 560]

My GT-14 made a similar sound when the starter failed to disengage.  May not be the sound that you are hearing but a new starer and I was back in business.  Took me longer than I would like to admit  to find it.  Started fine.  Noise increased with throttle.  Thought for sure that the motor was failing.  Come to find out the gear on the starter would hang on the flywheel just a bit after initial start.  God awful racket.  Best of luck to you.

[peter lena 8,580]

tc 10284, i recently picked up a very trashed 3-14-8 , with a very similar noise issue, first off i agree with others on related possible noise from belt and guard area , also loose engine mounting . the "  oil   " in my engine was beyond lubrication life, got it started ,and ran at fast idle to heat it up , drained oil, fresh 30 wt , with rislone engine treatment , to flush out varnish and crud . ran 2 hrs , oil was black ,filthy , drained again , fresh oil and rislone engine treatment, started to sound better , idle was easier . i think the neglect and the wrong oil used in your engine is the issue. this is only my own experience, but the major thing i have found , is that recovery is slow , if you see a gain on noise and operation , it could be engine varnish and crud build up , got mine starting and running much better , before i sold it , my tractor was so bad , i was just not going to go through with it , separate you engine as much as you can to verify    the issue, pete

[clueless 2,976]

The noise I hear is more of a rattle than a knock, and while it's consistent it is not nearly as consistent as a rod knock. Like the others, it sound more like something loose, belt guard, tins, give everything a good cleaning, then start checking nut and bolts. 

[cafoose 3,354]

Get yourself one of these, I have one and it's great for diagnosing noises

Stethoscope

[Anglo Traction 761]

If the rattle noise is coming from within the Crankcase, it will most likely be the Balance Gear bearings and/or shaft  excessive wear. Not much else it can be inside.

Have you tried to 'listen in' with a metal rod or tube (alternative to a stethoscope) in contact with the Crankcase whist engine running?.

A very good method for isolating/locating trouble spots.  If it is those gears, there's plenty of advice on here as to what to do with them!.

Hope you find and cure it easily though.

Regards

 

EDIT - Cafoose beat me to it !.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Anglo Traction

[stevasaurus 22,708]

To me, it sounds like something rattling around just behind the tin around the flywheel...like a little stone or nut being kicked around.  It doesn't sound like it is from inside the engine, more like a marble on the roulette wheel.  Take off that particular engine tin and have something (like newspaper) under there to catch anything that falls out.    One small piece of pea gravel under that screen.

[TC10284 111]

It definitely sounds like it's in the engine. I took my mechanics stethoscope and listened to both sides. I heard most noise from the right side (exhaust) down near the base of the engine as shown in the pics below. I took one ear out to confirm I heard it at the same time as the stethoscope and I did. Same noise, just louder.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dRYSFgDncWcPg7VF7

Edited August 29, 2020 by TC10284

[clueless 2,976]

Okay you got the belt guard off, now remove both belt from the PTO then run it, that will help with eliminating it being the PTO.

 

[Bill D 1,907]

Check anything external first.  Muffler baffles, PTO issues, debris in the flywheel such as nuts or seeds brought in by mice.  Any debris in the starter that keep the gear partially engaged with the flywheel?  Check for loose flywheel magnets.  Is it charging properly?  If everything else checks out my vote is for balance gears.  Sounds a little like another video I heard on YouTube.  

[TC10284 111]

Deck belt and drive belt removed. Noise still there:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VQnmEmntMfXEzYsG6

 

Yes, it is showing 14v on voltmeter. 

[johnnymag3 2,515]

That is an awful erratic, non repetitive type noise...

 

Leaning towards something loose in the tins....anything heavy metal sounding internally would be in the rotating mass....When was the last time the starter gear was serviced. That is a bigtime area that people fail to lubricate...and yes its in the manual for servicing regularly     !!! Good luck, hope its an easy fix. Keep us posted

[TC10284 111]

I took off the flywheel shroud and didn't find anything obviously loose. The only thing I found was a dead mouse stuck to the fins of the block. Long dead. No way it was making that noise. I had to peel it off. 

That's all I've found so far. No dirt buildup, nothing loose. Everything has been very tight so far. 

[oliver2-44 9,684]

Since you have the flywheel tin off check the starter. Crank it over with the starter and see if the gear is engaging and disengaging properly. 

[TC10284 111]

The starter is engaging and disengaging properly. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Djj2zkPYGWPxLYZ19

 

What, internally, could this be? One person said balance gears - I saw that. 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

On 8/29/2020 at 11:34 AM, stevasaurus said:

To me, it sounds like something rattling around just behind the tin around the flywheel...like a little stone or nut being kicked around.  It doesn't sound like it is from inside the engine, more like a marble on the roulette wheel.  Take off that particular engine tin and have something (like newspaper) under there to catch anything that falls out.    One small piece of pea gravel under that screen.

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

Balance gears or a big possibility but it could be a rod knockin. I also would suspect a timing issue.

[953 nut 55,075]

Could be the bearings in the PTO, does the sound change with the PTO lever moved forward?

[TC10284 111]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Could be the bearings in the PTO, does the sound change with the PTO lever moved forward?

 

It didn't prior to disconnecting it all. 

[TC10284 111]

On 8/30/2020 at 6:25 PM, The Tuul Crib said:

Balance gears or a big possibility but it could be a rod knockin. I also would suspect a timing issue.

 

Is there a guide to checking or adjusting the timing in the M14?