78 c-161 repower

[cerial 7]

I have a 1978 c-161 blacktop that has been a great machine. it was restored and repowered with a briggs back in 2000. I bought the tractior in the spring after roaming on this site for a bit. It came with the plow blade and what I believe is a 42" deck. The hydraulics work flawlessly not leaking at all. The engine was a bit under power it would "bog" briefly when it was hot.  I assumed was a coil or having a bit of play in the throttle linkage. The engine does not burn a ounce of oil or leak anywhere.

 

I only have 2 acres and a horseshoe driveway that is around 800 feet for grading/plowing. Mowing it all at once takes around 4 hours due to lots of obstacles. But if I split it up into front and back yard the old girl has no issue tackling anything even mowing over tulips which spring up to a foot within 2 weeks. I am not a flower person.

 

So about 2 weeks ago I was mowing the yard and just finished the front. While coming up to the house the thing started bogging and it died then would not start.

After cleaning the carb and then installing a new coil the thing fired up but would shoot a plume of fuel out the top of the carb. So I replaced the carb then did what I was kind of expecting but was hoping it was not and checked the compression.

 

100 on the front cylinder great

0 on the rear cylinder not even building pressure during cranking.

 

So do I tear into this thing and replace what I am expecting is a exhaust valve or cut my losses and just repower the thing with a V twin design?

 

I have decided to repower the thing with a V twin. What I don't know is what will work. I am ok fabricating mounts if need be.  It looks like I can drop anything that turns the right way and has the same shaft size  under that hood to spin those pulleys. But I would like some recommendations. Maybe a Honda engine, or another Briggs, or one of those 22hp harbor freight units, or something else.

 

I like simplicity. I don't need fuel injection. I want to re power this thing then just do basic maintenance on it. I am half considering going electric with a 36volt 3000amp setup out of a golf cart at this point.

 

Before I go out and spend what is looking to be around $1000 on a repower(finished). I would like some recommendations on what you guys have done and what works good.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,274]

 

 

 

There's a few things that come to mind for me. I'm not super familiar with anything built after 1977 but others will be along to help.

So if you've got a 1978 c161 it should NOT have a black hood. Black hoods came along a couple years later.

Somewhere along in that vintage there were tractors built oe with Briggs twins.

You say that was repowered. Do you have any of the model numbers or do you know what was originally in there?

 

You could repower it with quite a few different things including all of the ideas you mentioned above.

 

If you want to keep it simple the easiest thing to do would be to rebuild your existing engine or get a direct replacement for it.

Another option on the simple side would be to find a donor tractor that has the drivetrain you're looking for and then you would have all the parts you need and be able to see the layout.

 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

C-161 originally equipped with a Kohler engine ?

if you like 'simplicity' - can you re-power with the original Kohler (rebuilt) or similar engine ?
 

what happened to the original engine ?  Is it possible the original engine can be rebuilt ?   If not - maybe you can find a similar engine ?

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by tom2p

[SylvanLakeWH 25,490]

 to another Michigander!!!

 

Love the Black Hoods!!!

 

Looks like folks above have addressed your options...

[R Scheer 502]

I thought I saw some rebuilt kohlers for sale in the classified section.  May be the fastest solution.

[bds1984 1,429]

There absolutely was a C161 with a twin Briggs in it and is probably the original engine to your C161.  For what you have in mind for a budget, I feel that you could rebuild the Briggs with money to spare. But if you have the desire to re-power, make sure your "new" engine has the capability to handle a Wheel Horse style clutch or else you'll have to use an electric clutch; lateral force from a Wheel Horse clutch will destroy the cranks from the lateral force.  If you go the electric clutch, make sure your charging system is able to handle the current draw, run lights, and charge the battery.  There are lots of used engines that can work if you can do the leg work, or if you want to budget some more funds, you can basically get a "drop-in" new Briggs and Stratton v-twin.  The extra cost isn't a good thing but the extra power and ability to buy new B&S parts is.  For used engines, any single cylinder K-series and Magnums will work with little effort and so will the majority 18HP Briggs & Stratton opposed twins as all of these engines have ball bearings on the cranks needed for the PTO clutch.  I suppose that any horizontal engine could work if you aren't concerned with a PTO, though.

 

 

[cerial 7]

The data tag on the tractor is

91-16BS02-17841

9025

 

So I was mistaken. That shows it is a 79

 

The engine is a 18hp Briggs

Model 422437

Type 4146 E1

Code 0003165B

 

My local small engine shop is telling me that the pistons and valves end up making the ports oblong over time because the block is aluminum. They say any fix is more of a patch and I will be looking for another engine within a few years.

I have not tore into the engine yet to confirm they are oblong. If they are I would be paying for any machine work and am unsure about how big I could go to fix things. Then it seems like the design would lend itself to having the same thing happen within a few years.

 

That is not saying I am not open to buying another 18hp. Reconditioned go for around $1000 and I would have a wealth of spare parts,  But it seems like a V twin or other tilted cylinder design would lessen the chance of things becoming oblong.

 

Here is a short video of it running. I need to adjust the throttle cable and let the battery fully charge

 

 

.

Should I pull the heads and check the valves in hopes I could save this or just start looking for a repower? 

That clutch and other aspects is why I am asking. I would have never thought about the side loading. I may have overlooked other things or options.

[ebinmaine 67,274]

5 hours ago, cerial said:

local small engine shop is telling me that the pistons and valves end up making the ports oblong over time because the block is aluminum. They say any fix is more of a patch and I will be looking for another engine within a few years.

I'm no Briggs expert but I'd be getting more info there. 

I find it a little difficult to believe that the cylinder wall is aluminum. 

 

And as to being a "patch". No. I just flat out disagree. 

 

A remanufactured engine with proper attention to needed machine work will last many years.  

 

 

 

6 hours ago, cerial said:

Should I pull the heads and check the valves in hopes I could save this or just start looking for a repower?

Absolutely ALWAYS do a full diagnosis before repairs or replacement. 

Maybe the engine needs to be rebuilt. 

Maybe there's an accumulation of carbon. 

Maybe there is a stuck valve. 

Maybe there's a repairable reason that one cylinder is bad. 

 

The other one having 100 psi is good...... So what caused the immediate zero.......?

 

[Tuneup 1,433]

It has a bit of a chug sound like mine with its bad head gasket. It might be just that simple and a quick, cheap fix. For me, I'd always open it - part of the fun of ownership. If you don't have the time, the list is right to suggest a standard repower - little fashioning involved. You can play with the Briggs on the side while the work gets done.

[bds1984 1,429]

Something is definitely a foot here.  I don't like how there appears to be vapor coming out of the carburetor; there could be a stuck intake valve/lifter, cylinder worn extremely out-of-round, or perhaps a stuck/broken ring, or a combination of all three, etc.  Going by the model code, your engine is definitely a replacement engine made in March of 2000; it is 42 cu/in, engine design 2, 4 = horizontal shaft, 3 = ball bearing flange mount bearings w/splash lube, 7 = electric start 12 volt gear drive with alternator.   First step would be to pull the heads.  You may discover it is a simple fix.  These really are simple and rugged engines, I've serviced/ran many of them in the last twenty-plus years.

Eric there are a ton of Briggs like that made out of aluminum.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of their twin-cylinder engines are made out of aluminum.  Beyond that is a whole flotilla of different levels of engine quality/engine lines; some had cast iron cylinders (with and without pressure lubrication) and some were just aluminum with splash lube.  I grew up with one of these twins in a riding mower that was aluminum block 18HP, not rare in the grand scheme of things, but throw in the cast iron cylinders AND pressure lube with oil filter, you got yourself a rare model for the time.  If one wants one of these twins with cast iron cylinders, look for the Industrial/Commercial (I/C) or Vanguard variety or get really good at deciphering the model, type, and code numbers.  This style of engine got a bad reputation for the lower end models being placed in cheap, throwaway mowers where the owner never took care of them.  Some of them are definitely worth rebuilding and they have a soft spot for me much like a K341 does.  

[tom2p 2,394]

there is a chance the engine is a Briggs I/C 

 

as stated above in prev post Briggs I/C engine is a higher quality engine and will have cast iron liners 

 

[cerial 7]

I will tear into it this weekend to see what I have. It does say I/C on one of the covers. 

[cerial 7]

I tore the head off and the head looked good even had newer hardware.

 

 

Anyone see whats wrong in this picture?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I fished out the bolt that was holding the intake open. Rotated the engine over and I did not see any light when the valve was closed.

 

I assembled the engine and checked the compression. 110psi cool

 

 

I adjusted the linkage and played around with the throttle checking the governor operation. 

 

 

 

Everything works as it should. I am chucking this one up to a considerable amount of dumb luck. The bolt was large enough that it was stuck in the intake valve not making it into the head yet small enough it did not hit the cylinder.

 

 

Thank you guys for all the help.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by cerial

[ebinmaine 67,274]

Absolutely awesome!!

[tom2p 2,394]

58 minutes ago, cerial said:

I tore the head off and the head looked good even had newer hardware.

 

 

Anyone see whats wrong in this picture?

 

 

Yes - I see it !

 

You are missing a valve bolt !

 

Fortunately - they are available at AreYouEverLucky.com.

 

And probably a good idea to get new chrome muffler bearings when you order the valve bolt.

 

[c-series don 8,665]

Where did the bolt come from? 

[sqrlgtr 552]

[cerial 7]

It is one of the two bolts that  mount the air cleaner base and the air filter stud/top of the base to the carb.

.

[Bill D 1,907]

You are lucky.  That Briggs is a great engine.  Enjoy it.  Bill