656 tranny help

[WHX?? 48,779]

12 minutes ago, Gordyhogg said:

And what size and where do i get shims?

Good question Mcmaster carr may have them..... @Racinbob where do you get them? 

If your 1533's feel as good as they look I would not replace them. Same with other bearings. That tranny looks to be in pretty clean shape yet. No signs it had a great amount of water in it. 

Seems to me you just need 1616 bearings and all seals and of course the 3rd gear. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by WHX24

[oliver2-44 9,684]

Please post a pic of input gear with oil cleaned off and we’ll get @stevasaurus to weigh in on it

 

You can find arbor shims at your hardware store that has all those drawers of special items

[Racinbob 11,044]

2 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Good question Mcmaster carr may have them..... @Racinbob where do you get them? 

 

I picked up an assorted pack at WW Grainger. 

[Gordyhogg 150]

3 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Good question Mcmaster carr may have them..... @Racinbob where do you get them? 

If your 1533's feel as good as they look I would not replace them. Same with other bearings. That tranny looks to be in pretty clean shape yet. No signs it had a great amount of water in it. 

Seems to me you just need 1616 bearings and all seals and of course the 3rd gear. 

Surprisingly it is decently clean. It had a little water in it when i got it a year ago but i drained it n put fresh lucas in just to keep em wet n rust free. I just ordered the outer axle bearings, all 4 seals, gasket, and 3rd gear hopefully all i'll need

[Gordyhogg 150]

Im from western pa is mcmaster or grainger a store or a website? Never heard of em...my local t&m hardware may have arbor shims but id have to look

[WHX?? 48,779]

McMaster is a web order site and many of us here use it. 

https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-washer-shims

I might have know they have them there is just about nothing they don't.

 

Grainger is more of a wholesale house and you might have to have account to buy ther. I have one for my business but seldom buy there cause they take me to the house! 

[Gordyhogg 150]

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Please post a pic of input gear with oil cleaned off and we’ll get @stevasaurus to weigh in on it

 

You can find arbor shims at your hardware store that has all those drawers of special items

Will do either tonight or tomorrow for sure

[Gordyhogg 150]

1 hour ago, WHX24 said:

McMaster is a web order site and many of us here use it. 

https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-washer-shims

I might have know they have them there is just about nothing they don't.

 

Grainger is more of a wholesale house and you might have to have account to buy ther. I have one for my business but seldom buy there cause they take me to the house! 

thanks! Ill have to check em out. I have no idea what size id need for that though

[Gordyhogg 150]

Sorry its been a couple days guys. My parts from lowell came in and id like to get this baby put back together and painted. This is the input gear/shaft right? Hows it look? If its ok then let me know and ill try to find some shims for it n throw it in

Edited August 30, 2020 by Gordyhogg

[oliver2-44 9,684]

Your input gear looks good. Get her put together

[Gordyhogg 150]

Thanks! Ill be going to the hardware store in a bit to get some things. If i do find some arbor shims there. Am i supposed to put them on the outside of the tranny behind the pulley or do i put them inside on the input shaft?

[oliver2-44 9,684]

Put them on the inside under the input bearing

[Gordyhogg 150]

Here? @oliver2-44 

[stevasaurus 22,708]

Yes, the shim/s would go there...but I am wondering how you would determine how much or how many.  The idea is to make the input gear snug (not tight) into the hi gear, but too many shims can mess with the mesh and maybe even keep the shift rail from falling into the detente properly.  

   I think I would build the whole transmission, including bolting it together, put it in 3rd gear and see how much play I had in the input shaft.  The shims would amount to a hair less.

   You might get away with just building the spline shaft with the fork gears, and closing the case.  I don't know??  Need @Racinbob in here I think.    BTW, like Jim said, your input gear looks OK...just a little wear on the points.

[Racinbob 11,044]

Unfortunately I didn't get on this thread until the transmission was apart. In the past I have suggested that the play be checked prior to opening it up. There's a good chance there will be none and not needing a shim. Now the only way to check it is to reassemble it. It's not too hard to get a fairly accurate measurement. I usually do it with the pulley removed and use a dial caliper from the end of the shaft to the case. I try to find a thickness that will keep the ball just falling a fuzz shy of the center of the detent. That will ensure that full contact is made. The very slight pressure won't hurt a thing. It's possible that, if there is any play, it could have been caused by wear of the detent. Just a theory though. The last one I did was the 5025 on my 854. It was right at .035. I happened to have a .038 in my stash so that's what I used. I believe I accomplished exactly what I wanted. I put a larger drive pullen on the engine making 3rd gear kinda like a 'road' gear and it's working perfectly. 

 

My 2¢ worth on the input gear is the same. I've used worse with fine results. 

[Racinbob 11,044]

4 hours ago, Gordyhogg said:

Here? @oliver2-44 

 

Yes, there. Slide it on the input shaft before you put it in the case. I wouldn't add one without checking if you need it and, if so, what thickness.  

[oliver2-44 9,684]

@Gordyhogg sorry I've been with family and on the road since this morning. Looks like Steve and Bob have you fixed up.  

Before you pulled it apart were you able to get any kind of check on the input gear slack? 

[Gordyhogg 150]

19 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Yes, the shim/s would go there...but I am wondering how you would determine how much or how many.  The idea is to make the input gear snug (not tight) into the hi gear, but too many shims can mess with the mesh and maybe even keep the shift rail from falling into the detente properly.  

   I think I would build the whole transmission, including bolting it together, put it in 3rd gear and see how much play I had in the input shaft.  The shims would amount to a hair less.

   You might get away with just building the spline shaft with the fork gears, and closing the case.  I don't know??  Need @Racinbob in here I think.    BTW, like Jim said, your input gear looks OK...just a little wear on the points.

Ohh it has to be in gear when measuring the play? I wasnt able to get a good measurement before i tore it apart but (in neutral) it had some in and out play

[Gordyhogg 150]

also thanks so much for the replies guys this helps me out tremendously! Love this forum! 

[Gordyhogg 150]

Also yesterdays lesson when using an angle grinder to remove paint from parts, dont let it eat your thumb...it doesnt help get any work done 

[WHX?? 48,779]

Ouch.... but been there done that... more than once .... 

[Gordyhogg 150]

Ive been nicked a few times but this was probly the worst yet...aint gonna stop me from gettin this horse back on her feet! Also does anybody know if the bull gear was supposed to have a shim/washer in these 5053's? Pretty sure my 8 speed did but this one does not...i could be wrong 🤷‍♂️

[Racinbob 11,044]

2 hours ago, Gordyhogg said:

Ohh it has to be in gear when measuring the play? I wasnt able to get a good measurement before i tore it apart but (in neutral) it had some in and out play

 

Yes, it must be in 3rd gear with only the detent holding it in place. You're wanting to make sure the 3523 gear stays fully engaged to the input gear. Here's a comparison of a new gear and a worn one. 

 

[Gordyhogg 150]

Thanks @Racinbob i finally got it back together and checked end play and without the gasket there was barely a 16th of an inch so I'm gonna throw it back together and run with it!

[Racinbob 11,044]

You're welcome Gordy. I've shimmed with less play than that. Keep in mind that's .0625. You'll probably be OK but those 3523 gears are a weak spot in these strong transmissions. Personally, I want zero play.