416-H saved the day

[WildmanC120 613]

I bought a new house recently back in awful NY with my fiance. We sold my house in VT and her house in Schenectady and bought a place in the country.  We were very lucky with the purchase and the previous owner left us many many awesome things. Among those awesome things was a 20hp sabre lawn mower...

 

I have been using this mower recently as it is hydro drive and has foot controls. After trying it out I kinda got spoiled by driving with your foot.  It's pretty convenient!

 

While mowing tonight with the sabre...it suddenly started vibrating.  Then about 1 minute later.... Flying out from underneath came the pto belt and electric clutch. Found the bolt and washer about 50 feet away in the yard.  

 

Needless to say, I'll be back to mowing with the wheel horse from now on.  It's in nice shape with only 143 hours but idk of it's worth fixing. 

 

 

 

 

[D_Mac 8,619]

Looks like an easy enough fix. Repair it and sell it use the money to buy another red one.

[WildmanC120 613]

6 hours ago, D_Mac said:

Looks like an easy enough fix. Repair it and sell it use the money to buy another red one.

 

It has been for sale. No one wants it. 

[cschannuth 3,816]

I think that line of lawn mowers  was John Deere’s attempt to compete with the box store brands.  I may be mid-remembering though. 

[Tuneup 1,433]

I had a friend who used a stamped pan MTD mower (that Sabre looks like one to me) to mow as a side business. It didn't take long for me to have to change a spindle bearing on the deck. Next door neighbor seemed to collect those tractors, whatever brand. It stopped, he parked it, and bought another. Today's disposable world.

[WildmanC120 613]

29 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

I think that line of lawn mowers  was John Deere’s attempt to compete with the box store brands.  I may be mid-remembering though. 

 

It's possible. It actually seems like an "ok" made machine.  Cast front axle, lots of grease zerks etc. It has a briggs vanguard instead of the lower end.  

[johnnymag3 2,520]

Whats that saying with regards to the Watermelon ??Keep the red, throw out the green ???

[lynnmor 7,306]

Your particular JD is about the best of the box store tractors.  Since they don't usually bring much for resale, I would do the simple fixes and run it till major repairs are needed.  Save the red ones for the long haul.

Edited August 23, 2020 by lynnmor

[D_Mac 8,619]

I have had a few Sabre's . Last one I had was the last year they made them. I believe after this year this tractor was the same as the L series. It was OK. Nothing to get excited about. LOL I tried giving it to my mother to replace her Craftsman, even she didnt want it. She wanted to keep her Craftsman.

[WildmanC120 613]

The guys on the my tractor forum were trying to tell me it's worth 1300 bucks. I have yet to be able to even get 850 for it. No one has made.offera on it so I have just been using it up since it came with the house instead of the horses.  

 

It does 2 things better then the horse. The foot hydro is amazing. Also the turning radius is very tight so it's really handy around my flower beds etc. 

 

Other then those 2 things...it's a turd.  The 20hp engine runs well but that old onan 16hp in the 416 I swear makes more power. 

[midpack 866]

I had a Scott's 25/54 machine, same deal, it was made by John Deere. Got it for $25... put a set of head gaskets (known to be a problem) and it ran great!

Until the electric PTO quit. Found out much later it was just a wire that wore through. 

That engine would just guzzle gas though

[bds1984 1,429]

My vote is to fix it and keep mowing.  They're very similar to the 200GT series JD machines that I have spend hundreds of hours on over the years.  The foot pedal hydro is a nice addition, although I am partial to the twin-touch style that the higher end JD and Simplicity units use.  I know this is a Wheel Horse forum, but they (Sabre and some Scotts) are a decent machines (especially for a big-box store machine).  I can't tell what model yours is but it has some variant of a K65 or K66 transaxle which is better than 90% of what is sold now.  A generic electric clutch will hopefully get you back going, but for now, you have a faithful and trusty 416H by your side.

[WildmanC120 613]

9 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

My vote is to fix it and keep mowing.  They're very similar to the 200GT series JD machines that I have spend hundreds of hours on over the years.  The foot pedal hydro is a nice addition, although I am partial to the twin-touch style that the higher end JD and Simplicity units use.  I know this is a Wheel Horse forum, but they (Sabre and some Scotts) are a decent machines (especially for a big-box store machine).  I can't tell what model yours is but it has some variant of a K65 or K66 transaxle which is better than 90% of what is sold now.  A generic electric clutch will hopefully get you back going, but for now, you have a faithful and trusty 416H by your side.

 

I may fix it and just now with it.  It is the 2048 so it's 20hp and 48" deck. I wouldn't wanna do anything se but now with it though. 

[lynnmor 7,306]

A quick way to tell the better box store mowers from the true throw-away mowers is to bend down and see if it has lugs holding the rear wheels on.

[WildmanC120 613]

Just now, lynnmor said:

A quick way to tell the better box store mowers from the true throw-away mowers is to bend down and see if it has lugs holding the rear wheels on.

It does. It has a 5 lug hub. 

 

Looks like I can get a new pto for 100.  The belt is ok.  I think I'll just fix it. 

[bds1984 1,429]

26 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

A quick way to tell the better box store mowers from the true throw-away mowers is to bend down and see if it has lugs holding the rear wheels on.

I used to think that was true but I have observed a couple exceptions. 
The first being some of them with bolt on wheels came with a Tuff Torq K46.  That in of itself isn't that big of a problem as long as the tires are 20" or smaller.  Many of these big-box units with the bolt on wheel are 22-23" tall and that extra bit of a difference can cause a K46 to fail early on, and even faster yet if you have anything other than flat terrain to mow, which renders them a throw away unit.  The second exception is the John Deere G100,110; 190C, LX176 up to LX289 where all of them have the K61 (some a K55) with 20-22" rear wheels held on with a c-clip and those two units are much more robust than a K46; some K61s have auxiliary hydro ports on them.  But to me, JD makes a better product than many others out there (gasp!); I'm still and always will be a Wheel Horse guy, I'm just acknowledging that JD can and does produce some good products.  

[RED-Z06 2,221]

These Sabre 2048s were solid...TuffTorq K65, 5 lug hubs. 20hp Twin.  I sold about the same tractor a couple years ago used for 2000...way higher quality than modern mowers 

[kpinnc 12,031]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:14 AM, WildmanC120 said:

It has been for sale. No one wants it. 

 

Try it again in spring time. 

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:33 AM, lynnmor said:

Save the red ones for the long haul

That’s my plan… use up those yellow and white tractors… long live Wheel Horse !

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:14 AM, WildmanC120 said:

No one wants it. 

I do!

 

But.. you are in NY... 

 

Don

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

On 8/23/2020 at 2:03 PM, lynnmor said:

A quick way to tell the better box store mowers from the true throw-away mowers is to bend down and see if it has lugs holding the rear wheels on.

That’s what I look for… still ain’t no  

though…

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Anybody else having trouble reacting to post # 17 ?

 

Could be because it has that link in it ?????

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

4 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Anybody else having trouble reacting to post # 17 ?

 

Could be because it has that link in it ?????

 

Guy with the ORIGINAL post #17 was a SPAMMER.  He's gone now.  You shouldn't see his post there any longer.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 8/23/2020 at 2:03 PM, lynnmor said:

A quick way to tell the better box store mowers from the true throw-away mowers is to bend down and see if it has lugs holding the rear wheels on.

I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. Tuff Torque K61 transmissions are just about bulletproof, but many of them don't use lugs. Just a design of the manufacturer. Not having lugs does not make it a throw away mower. 

 

Don

Edited December 20, 2021 by Snoopy11
typo

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I'll prove my point here:

 

Tuff Torq k61 out of 1999 Countax A20-50 (uses lugs):

 

 

Tuff Torq k61 out of 1995 John Deere Lx176 (same exact transmission, just doesn't use hubs or lugs):

 

 

Don