416-H saved the day

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Wheel Horse 264-H, 265-H, and 266-H used K61 transmission with hubs and lugs:

 

 

Simplicity K61 (no hubs or lugs):

 

 

Don

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Snoopy11
typo

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I should add. The John Deere Sabre 1948HV... (which I believe is what @WildmanC120 has)... has a Tuff Torq K62, which is VERY similar to the K61 (actually, you can replace a K61 with a K62 with a few modifications). 

 

Additionally, the K62 was used in other John Deere models, such as the LX277 which used the same transmission, many of which did not use lugs... such as this one:

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

My point...

 

I think you really have to get under the tractor, do your research, look up serial numbers, etc... before making a call over whether to junk it. 

 

Basically, my recent project, among others that I have done in the past, would be sitting in a junkyard right now if I went by "lug logic" 

 

Unless it has a hole in it the size of a half-dollar, I will never junk a Tuff Torq hydro... 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

41 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

My point...

 

I think you really have to get under the tractor, do your research, look up serial numbers, etc... before making a call over whether to junk it. 

 

Basically, my recent project, among others that I have done in the past, would be sitting in a junkyard right now if I went by "lug logic" 

 

Unless it has a hole in it the size of a half-dollar, I will never junk a Tuff Torq hydro... 

 

Don

K46...that one is pretty bad, its wildly popular...but should have been used in something more that size of a 10hp rear engine rider not a 23hp 22" tire 48" bohemoth.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

19 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

K46...that one is pretty bad, its wildly popular...but should have been used in something more that size of a 10hp rear engine rider not a 23hp 22" tire 48" bohemoth.

I talked to a buddy of mine who works at Wright implement. He said that they work on over 700 JD mowers over a year's time. 

 

He told me that he sees, maybe 1 K46 per year come in that has failed.

 

Biggest problem, he said was grass and debris covering the rear end... not allowing it to cool properly.

 

I am sure T-MO would concur here as well. 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

31 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

I talked to a buddy of mine who works at Wright implement. He said that they work on over 700 JD mowers over a year's time. 

 

He told me that he sees, maybe 1 K46 per year come in that has failed.

 

Biggest problem, he said was grass and debris covering the rear end... not allowing it to cool properly.

 

I am sure T-MO would concur here as well. 

 

Don

I just sold a 229 hour Deere L130 that the K46HD was starting to fail on...and it made probably the 75th or so ive had in my hands, no other hydro ive seen with that many failures, General Transmission CVTs are the next big failure prone mess...plastic trans in a rider.

 

Maybe its a southern thing but K46s used regularly down here were 3 to 4 year units 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Maybe its a southern thing

That, or a... "going beyond the limits of the machine" thing... 

 

Not only that, but the K46 has to be maintenanced in a way that most people refuse to do. 

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I will add, if people think, (not that they do it very often) but if they have the impression that they can go 250 hours without changing the trans oil on a K46... they are delusional. 

 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

4 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

That, or a... "going beyond the limits of the machine" thing... 

 

Not only that, but the K46 has to be maintenanced in a way that most people refuse to do. 

 

 

Don

Its not reasonable to have to remove the trans and dump the oil, measure it, and refill with that amount...and an internal wire mesh filter.  TT makes some great units but the K46 is a throw away that got put in too many larger machines.  The LX models you mentioned have more robust and capable TT trans with less weight, less power and smaller Tires than my L130 did with its K46 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 minute ago, RED-Z06 said:

Its not reasonable to have to remove the trans and dump the oil, measure it, and refill with that amount

I don't disagree. But knowing that removing it and replacing the oil with synthetic could prolong the life of the trans is helpful knowledge. 

 

4 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

K46 is a throw away that got put in too many larger machines

Again, I don't disagree. I do not feel that the K46 was designed for heavy duty use. Maybe for... the guy who has a cookie-cutter subdivision yard...

 

5 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

The LX models you mentioned have more robust and capable TT trans

I agree 100%. Although, I wouldn't discard a machine with K46 just because I know... what it is. 

 

I would do the maintenance and repair necessary. But... that's just me.  

 

Further, a K46 could do a good bit of mowing on flat land... as long as it is kept clean and oiled properly. BUT... you have to want to maintain it. 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

The Deere G110 vs L130

G110..23" rear tires, 54 deck, K66 trans, 25hp $3700

 

L130..same chassis, 22" rear tires, 48" deck, 23hp. K46 trans.  $2600

 

Which one sold more?

[RED-Z06 2,221]

As I recall when i went to TT school around 07, they were at the time saying the K46 was a sealed unit and should not be serviced.  They later reversed that to say more or less "well okay its not serviceable unless you pull it out of the chassis".  

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, RED-Z06 said:

The Deere G110 vs L130

G110..23" rear tires, 54 deck, K66 trans, 25hp $3700

 

L130..same chassis, 22" rear tires, 48" deck, 23hp. K46 trans.  $2600

 

Which one sold more?

People have a perception that the cheaper John Deere is capable of just as much as the more expensive John Deere... because it is a John Deere. 

 

See the circular reasoning there?

 

But if that was true... why would there be more expensive models...?

 

Further, I hate to speak collectively, but most people would PREFER a transmission that "doesn't need to be serviced" ...less work, less maintenance, less money. And they think ...It will last forever... 

 

Whatever... 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

well okay its not serviceable unless you pull it out of the chassis

And:

 

Do that every 200 hours...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

10 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

G110..23" rear tires, 54 deck, K66 trans, 25hp $3700

HAH!

 

LX176.. 22" rear tires, 38 deck, K61 trans, 14 hp $4,150+

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I think it says enough that the K46, according to Tuff Torq, is "light duty"

 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

27 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

People have a perception that the cheaper John Deere is capable of just as much as the more expensive John Deere... because it is a John Deere. 

 

See the circular reasoning there?

 

But if that was true... why would there be more expensive models...?

 

Further, I hate to speak collectively, but most people would PREFER a transmission that "doesn't need to be serviced" ...less work, less maintenance, less money. And they think ...It will last forever... 

 

Whatever... 

 

Don

To the buying public...which one has the robust medium duty transmission capable of years of use...and which one has the weakest hydro offered by that same manufacturer...knowing that one is 14hp and one is 23hp.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Yall are going to get me banned for posting pics of junk in the WH forum 🤣

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

To the buying public...which one has the robust medium duty transmission capable of years of use...and which one has the weakest hydro offered by that same manufacturer...knowing that one is 14hp and one is 23hp.

Common sense say: but the 130 is 10 years newer!!! 

 

Experience tells me that the 176 is 10 years older, and still going strong for a reason... 

 

 

Don

[oliver2-44 9,759]

Well to beat up on sealed transmissions a little more let’s talk about where auto manufactures are going. 
My wife’s 2016 Lexus RX350 SUV and my sons 2018 Toyota SUB essentially have a sealed transmissions. No dipstick to check fluid, Manual says do not change oil or filter. Others manufactures are doing the same. 
 

I just shot a Doe (sausage meat). Got to go to work now!

Edited December 21, 2021 by oliver2-44

[Snoopy11 5,714]

15 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

junk in the WH forum

I've got a whole thread devoted to... "junk"

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 minute ago, oliver2-44 said:

Well to beat up on sealed transmissions a little more let’s talk about where auto manufactures are going. 
My wife’s 2016 Lexus RX350 SUV and my sons 2018 Toyota SUB essentially have a sealed transmissions. No dipstick to check fluid, Manual says do not change oil or filter. Others manufactures are doing the same. 

You aren't serious?

 

Wow, and here I am talking about the importance of changing the oil... even in "sealed" transmissions... 

 

Don

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Interesting...the K46 is only rated for up to 20" tires on its low geared model and up to 18" tires on its high geared model and lists for rear engine riders and lawn tractors.

[oliver2-44 9,759]

5 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

You aren't serious?

 

Wow, and here I am talking about the importance of changing the oil... even in "sealed" transmissions... 

 

Don

Very serious. I spoke to a Service Manager who claimed people were doing more harm to transmission letting dirt in when they checked them, etc.  

[kpinnc 12,087]

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

My wife’s 2016 Lexus RX350 SUV and my sons 2018 Toyota SUB essentially have a sealed transmissions. No dipstick to check fluid, Manual says do not change oil or filter. Others manufactures are doing the same. 

 

My 2011 Tacoma says the same thing, but the fluid gets changed every 60K or so. Not a flush, but drained and refilled with what the manual calls for. Same for the front diff and transfer case.