KC Engine Work

[Delkc01 1]

I have a 1967 857 8hp Koller that I need some help working on.  Does anyone know anyone in Kansas City, Mo that works on these types?

[oliver2-44 9,684]

There's lots of friendly knowledgeable people on here that can walk you through any repairs.  What repairs does it need?

 We love pictures!

[Delkc01 1]

Well that's the problem I am not 100% sure.  When I turn the key the engine is turning, but it doesn't want to start.  It's making a different noise like there is not spark to it.  Not sure if any of that makes sense.  

[stevasaurus 22,707]

Welcome to Red Square.  Kansas City has to have a small engine shop...whether they sell Ariens, John Deere, TORO they should have a service shop.  The question is...do you have the skills and a few tools to able to be talked through the process of testing a few things and answering the questions that are going to be asked.  Questions like...can you follow the wires and make sure the connections are clean and tight.  The 857 is an easy, straight forward horse.  It was built before OSHA got their fingers involved.  I'm wondering about "the different noise" when cranked.  It would be nice to hear the noise (a video), but you could be doing harm by cranking it more.  I think the 1st thing is to try to describe the noise when cranking.  Is the noise internal??  Here is a thread from one of our members that shows tearing down a K-181.  Take a look, it could be anything on the outside of the engine, but this thread will let you see what it takes if the noise is inside he engine.    Just click on the picture below.

 

 

[prondzy 3,881]

Remove the air filter, while cranking the engine spray a good dose of carb cleaner into the carb.....did it fire??? If it did you have a fuel issue, dirty carb bad fuel pump etc. If it did not fire with spray remove the spark plug from the head,connect the plug back into the coil wire and set the sparkplug on the head and crank it over do you see spark?? If not time to check points, tractor wiring, coil and condenser. If you see spark and it didnt fire on spray time to remove the head and check piston and valve movement..

 

Try these things and report back. 

[953 nut 55,075]

13 hours ago, Delkc01 said:

When I turn the key the engine is turning, but it doesn't want to start.

The old Kohler engines are easy to work on and very reliable. With a few basic tools and help from members here you can solve the problem and save some money.

As Prondzy said, a few basic checks will get you headed in the right direction. If you have a volt meter or a test light you can check for power to the ignition coil "+" terminal with the key in the "on" position.

If you have been using gas that has ethanol in it that could be the culprit. Ethanol will mess up the fuel system.https://www.pure-gas.org/

[Tractorhead 9,064]

 to 

 

you be in best Hands here.

[Goldnboy 910]

Dell

 

@RandyLittrell is from S KC metro  and I'm in the Northland by KCI Airport. 

 

Not much for service shops for our old tractors here to be honest. But if you start will the basics as @953 nut mentioned,  such as confirming you have fuel, and spark, then you will get going in no time. These engines  are so basic with no safety gizmos it will be less  to figure out. You may want to spend a few minutes with a wire brush removing rust and corrosion  from electrical  wires and the points of contact. 

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

@Delkc01 I'm from Harrisonville. These engines need air, fuel, compression and spark to run. Pull the plug, reattach the plug wire and lay it on the head while cranking and see if you have spark. If so, pull the air filter and spray some carb cleaner in and see if it fires. If so, you need to clean the fuel system. The means tank, carb and new lines. You can check for power at the coil as well. Points could need filed too. Video would help. 

 

Is it spinning faster than before? That could mean head gasket or broken parts inside. Give us some more info. 

 

Forgot to say Welcome!!  

 

Randy

Edited August 17, 2020 by RandyLittrell

[Delkc01 1]

Thank you all for your feedback.  I have never worked on engines in my life so this is all new for me so bare with me as I want to learn. I had my neighbor come over that seems to know a little bit about everything so we took the head off and found a little metal piece sitting on top of the piston.  As we dug in more we also found that the butterfly, I guess you would call it somehow broke off of the throttle adjustment within the carburetor and made it way through.  There is zero compression and the rod is 100% broke.  Has anyone see this happen before?    

 

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

Sounds like rebuild to me . I'm with majority about helping you through this. A lot of good knowledge here!

 

T😎

[Delkc01 1]

Would this rebuild kit work or would we recommend something else?  

 

https://www.amazon.com/reparación-motor-Kohler-artículos-gratuitos/dp/B07SZCVYKZ/ref=asc_df_B07SZCVYKZ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=96944448434&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815

[tunahead72 2,403]

8 hours ago, Delkc01 said:

 

8 hours ago, Delkc01 said:

 

 

I'm not an expert here, but that combustion chamber doesn't look horrible to me.  Do you have a photo of the head that you removed?

 

You mentioned a noise in your first post, I think I would check that out carefully...  In this photo, the piece along your index finger is the throttle shaft, which installs into the opening at the top of the carburetor, right past the end of your finger.  It looks to me like somebody installed a bushing or two to tighten up the shaft and make it operate more smoothly, it's a pretty common repair to make on these carbs.

 

The other piece in your hand, I can't quite tell but maybe it's the butterfly, a thin flat metal disc?  Once the shaft was inserted into the carb, that disc would have been fastened to it with two very small screws, it's quite possible that they broke loose and got sucked out of the carb and into the engine.  Did you find those two screws?

 

And what was the part that you found on top of the piston?

 

You have a good neighbor. 

 

[Delkc01 1]

The butterfly pice was sitting on tip of the large piston when we took off the head.  It did break off and one screw is still connect, but cant fine the other one.  The rod is defiantly broke too.

[953 nut 55,075]

1 hour ago, Delkc01 said:

Would this rebuild kit work or would we recommend something else?  

 

https://www.amazon.com/reparación-motor-Kohler-artículos-gratuitos/dp/B07SZCVYKZ/ref=asc_df_B07SZCVYKZ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=96944448434&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815

Don't buy anything until you are absolutely sure what you need. You should remove the engine block from the oil pan and inspect the lower end to see what has been damaged. Also, the cylinder needs to be inspected and measured properly. Here is a thread that will give you a starting point for measuring the cylinder.

 

[Delkc01 1]

Ok I will start there this week and report back.  Thank you 953 nut!

[Delkc01 1]

I'm pretty sure I found one of the issues. 

[953 nut 55,075]

That would do it. How do the crank shaft and cylinder look?   Any evidence of other damage?

[Delkc01 1]

@953 nut No - I had my neighbor look this morning to make sure I wasn't missing anything and those look pretty good.  Anything else I should check?

Edited August 28, 2020 by Delkc01

[tom2p 2,394]

15 hours ago, Delkc01 said:

I'm pretty sure I found one of the issues. 

that should not stop a good running Kohler    lol

 

ouch !

 

[sqrlgtr 552]

Ouch talk about worst case scenario. tool time.

[953 nut 55,075]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:04 AM, Delkc01 said:

@953 nut No - I had my neighbor look this morning to make sure I wasn't missing anything and those look pretty good.  Anything else I should check?

 

On 8/23/2020 at 6:13 PM, Delkc01 said:

Would this rebuild kit work or would we recommend something else?  

 

https://www.amazon.com/reparación-motor-Kohler-artículos-gratuitos/dp/B07SZCVYKZ/ref=asc_df_B07SZCVYKZ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=96944448434&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416726750802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5191271779171852518&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023231&hvtargid=pla-872555493815

Looking at the photos you have provided and your neighbor's inspection you can probably get by with honing the cylinder and using the kit from Amazon. Use this thread to check out the condition of your cylinder.

 

[Delkc01 1]

Well went to put everything back together and didn't see there was a crack in the engine block. 

 

The advice I have been given is to use JB Weld or Braze Weld.  Thoughts anyone?

[953 nut 55,075]

1 hour ago, Delkc01 said:

JB Weld

          Clean it up inside with a wire brush followed with a lacquer thinner wash and spread 1/8" layer of JB weld on the damaged area.

[tom2p 2,394]

my advice is to find another engine