Trying to figure out why this gear turns hard

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Get the the gear drive together yesterday and I'm having a little issue. I torqued the bolts to proper spec numbers and when I go to turn the gear it turns rather hard. Took it back apart make sure the needle bearings were not in the way, everything is fine. It just feels like it's dragging not quite grinding but as though it's riding metal to metal. any thoughts?;

[daveoman1966 3,762]

If the gear would turn easily by hand, I'd expect something wrong.  Know that you have all refinished (and some new parts?) and that during the initial 'break-in' period I'd not be surprised that the gear would be tight or hard to turn by hand.  If you've followed torque specs, applied a generous amount of pre-lube (breakin oil), and followed the manual, your fear is probably unwarranted.      

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

3 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

If the gear would turn easily by hand, I'd expect something wrong.  Know that you have all refinished (and some new parts?) and that during the initial 'break-in' period I'd not be surprised that the gear would be tight or hard to turn by hand.  If you've followed torque specs, applied a generous amount of pre-lube (breakin oil), and followed the manual, your fear is probably unwarranted.      

Really no new parts in this area. 
You mention "breakin in oil" what type

of oil should be used?

[953 nut 55,771]

It has been several years since I did my Hydro-gear but I don't remember it being easy to turn. The tolerances in a hydraulic motor are very close.Was it easy to turn before you took it apart??

[Pullstart 63,096]

Not knowing the innards of these, I was thinking the same while watching the video.  I’d imagine they aren’t supposed to spin easy.  Just think how they lock up when you try to push them!

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Im fine with all that and if thats normal

great.The thing is no new parts. The reason 

l took it all apart was to clean it up 

thoroughly. The parking break pawl

was chewed up and l wanted to make

sure there was no metal shards left

inside. Seems it turned a little easier

before. I just wish there was anything 

other than the repair manuals that l have

for these internal parts installation.

[gt14rider 797]

Just checked out my pump gear and can turn with two fingers, but there's some resistance. Will the shaft move smoothly with end cap off, when putting on end cap does it go on smoothly, maybe tap on the two pins or tap on end cap with a soft dead blow hammer while torquing down, also when torquing bolts,  tighten in two steps,  tapping with hammer and checking gear as you tighten. Also assembling lube for bearings and gears, talked to LJ and said that thay use blue loc tight between pump halfs.

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

44 minutes ago, gt14rider said:

Just checked out my pump gear and can turn with two fingers, but there's some resistance. Will the shaft move smoothly with end cap off, when putting on end cap does it go on smoothly, maybe tap on the two pins or tap on end cap with a soft dead blow hammer while torquing down, also when torquing bolts,  tighten in two steps,  tapping with hammer and checking gear as you tighten. Also assembling lube for bearings and gears, talked to LJ and said that thay use blue loc tight between pump halfs.

Yes before I put the cap on you can turn the shaft freely. I put the cap on and tap it in place and the shop still turns freely. Only until you talk them down is when it tightens up. I noticed you put some red colored lube in place. Is that trans fluid?

[gt14rider 797]

Cam shaft lube, put some on bearings, gears. Permatex make some, or manny others. 

[gt14rider 797]

Use that lube though out intire pump, squash plate ,brass slippers. When all else fails get a bigger freaken hammer 

[lynnmor 7,354]

Am I seeing cracks in both halves?

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

1 hour ago, gt14rider said:

Use that lube though out intire pump, squash plate ,brass slippers. When all else fails get a bigger freaken hammer 

Here's a question for you I know that automatic transmission fluid is formulated for friction is that correct? If so then maybe I should not be using it to put this together. I thought it is made for surfaces to grab hold of one another as a spin to gain momentum.

[daveoman1966 3,762]

Inasmuch as there was no liquid or gasket sealant between the two sides of the Hydro Gear (not the pump), I don't know that it is a good idea to use any sort of sealant.  When torqued down, that sealant will 'squeeze' into the circulating fluid and work its way thru the entire system...contaminating the fluid.  The sealant won't dissolve and just 'go away'.  

  

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

And l wonder how well the ultra slick mixes with the ATF?

[gt14rider 797]

The lock tight was advice I got from LJ or tim at LJ power, thought maybe thay put a couple of these together before and knew what they're doing. 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

In 30+ years and a dozen or more of these that I have torn down and/or rebuilt, never did I find one that  had any sort of sealant or gasket as in the pic that I posted.  These are match-machined faces and held by EIGHT bolts. It takes 8 bolts torqued in sequence to ensure perfect fit precluding the need of a gasket or sealant.  To each his own though.   

Edited August 12, 2020 by daveoman1966

[pfrederi 17,866]

OK so i have at least 5 hydro gears.  I have opened the pump end and resurfaced the slippers and the piston block. etc. Some had been  a bit chewed up.  Flushed out the gear motor but never opened them.  they all work just fine.  Really  have never seen a need to open up the motor as there is really nothing you can do to "fix" it . They are pretty simple so it is easy to flush them out..  They are also steel so much less likely to have been damaged by dirt, metal bits etal. as the pump parts.  After following this thread guess i will continue to leave them alone.  (I think there is a reason why the manuals do not go into them....

Edited August 11, 2020 by pfrederi

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Well then l guess ill try and figure it 

out on my own. Thanx  anyway. 
l'm not getting the support needed 

to help me thru this . Some 

good, others not so much.

Edited August 12, 2020 by The Tuul Crib

[pfrederi 17,866]

1 hour ago, The Tuul Crib said:

Well then l guess ill try and figure it 

out on my own. Thanx  anyway. 
l'm not getting the support needed 

to help me thru this . Some 

good, others not so much.

  I think the problem is not many people have opened up the gear motor part so there is not a lot of expertise out there to help.

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Why is that a problem ? 
Fact is this site is supposed to be for support and help. As l said 

l can figure this out myself. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by The Tuul Crib

[squonk 41,324]

If any sealant is supposed to be between the halves. I would think it would be this

 

:https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/flexible-sealants/loctite_518.html

 

 

 

[953 nut 55,771]

11 hours ago, The Tuul Crib said:

l'm not getting the support needed 

to help me thru this

There are very few subject matter experts out there on half century old obscure technology but we all try to help and learn from each other. 

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Just got it back together and mounted back on the frame.

[Stormin 9,981]

What was the problem with the bolts when tightened locking things up.?

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

11 minutes ago, Stormin said:

What was the problem with the bolts when tightened locking things up.?

Not sure before I put it together the last time I added some of the permatex  ultra slick. I didn't torque on them as much as before. Maybe within 3 or 4 pounds less .I'm thinking once I get the fluid in and moving it should be OK.