Corvairs

[Cvans 1,009]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:20 PM, Achto said:

It's too bad that the Corvair Testudo never made production. It was a very cool looking sports car that in my opinion resembled a Jaguar.

If I remember correctly the project was canceled because it was feared the Testudo would be too competitive with Corvette sales.  

 

 

[ZXT 2,401]

If a Corvair was an attempt at a throw-away car, they failed! They're actually pretty good cars, despite what the idiot (Ralph Nader) might lead people to believe.

 

I'd never heard of the Testudo concept before. Definitely cool looking. Looking at multiple pictures, I see resemblances to later Corvettes in the front fenders, similarities to Porsche 928's in the front end/headlights, and a bit of Jensen Interceptor in the rear end. I wouldn't be surprised if auto makers looked at others' concepts for some ideas. 

 

There's usually a Corvair club meet one town over from me about this time every year. I rarely travel over there, but it seems the last 5 or so years I have gone through and saw the meet by mistake and stopped to look. Last year I was coming back from an air show and ran across them. Probably 50-60 Corvairs of every body type. Noticed that a good number of them were sporting factory Datsun 280zx wheels, which look pretty good actually. I have a couple of Datsun Z cars, and an extra set of wheels, so they will likely have a home if I ever get to fixing the Corvair up.

[JoeM 7,873]

5 hours ago, Cvans said:

I think the Vega was the second attempt and didn't fair any better. Chevette was #3?

My thoughts too!

 

[JoeM 7,873]

4 hours ago, ZXT said:

They're actually pretty good cars

I didn't say unsafe cars. 

Compared to what GM was making coming out of the late 50's and into the early 60's, no comparison. My experience with the Corcvair was anything past 60K miles was a long life. VW got the air cooled compact closer to right with the bug.

I had two Corvairs and they were junk! 

[Achto 27,565]

5 hours ago, Cvans said:

If I remember correctly the project was canceled because it was feared the Testudo would be too competitive with Corvette sales.

 

I could see that. it was a cool looking car.

 

[squonk 41,071]

6 hours ago, Cvans said:

I think the Vega was the second attempt and didn't fair any better. Chevette was #3? 

Chevettes were pretty tough believe it or not. We had a costumer with a 76. He was a highway engineer and it was his off road vehicle. It went everywhere. Came into the shop at 160,000 miles and he had us replace the entire front suspension, rear suspension, new clutch. He loved that thing. 

[Stormin 9,981]

11 hours ago, Achto said:

 

I could see that. it was a cool looking car.

 

 

I look at that and I think, E Type Jaguar.

[Achto 27,565]

4 hours ago, Stormin said:

I look at that and I think, E Type Jaguar.

 

This was my thoughts as well.

 

The car was designed by Giogetto Giugiaro and built by Bertone on a modified Corvair Monza chassis. I believe that Giogetto Giugiaro also had a hand in designing the E Type Jag. Giogetto is an incredible designer and is responsible for a great number of cool cars in Europe as well as some in the US.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Achto

[tom2p 2,394]

16 hours ago, TractorJunkie said:

My thoughts too!

 

and don't forget the Monza - if I recall correctly basically a massaged Vega (?)

 

the late 70's and 80's were killers to the US auto industry - especially  the small cars ... whew ... 

 

Vega 4 cyl used oil almost when they left the lot 

 

Chrysler found a way to enable the Aspen to generate little horsepower *and* little economy ... around 100 hp ? - and with fuel economy of a 400 hp late 60's muscle car 

 

at one point it looked like the Japanese auto makers would route the US auto industry as they did the European motorcycle industry ... fortunately that did not happen 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

5 hours ago, Stormin said:

 

I look at that and I think, E Type Jaguar.

me also 

 

[ZXT 2,401]

55 minutes ago, tom2p said:

Chrysler found a way to enable the Aspen to generate little horsepower *and* little economy ... around 100 hp ? - and with fuel economy of a 400 hp late 60's muscle car 

The smallest engine you could get in an Aspen was a 225 /6, which would've been around 105 HP due to all of the smog garbage. With the 4 speed OD, they got high 20's from people I've talked to.. High teens with an auto or a 3 on the tree. Here's what the EPA rated them at. Page 4 on this link will show you the specs for the Aspen. https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/1976_feg.pdf

 

High 20s (or even 30 MPG as the link shows) is a far cry from muscle car fuel economy!

 

There were also versions of the Duster and Dart (Feather duster, and Dart Lite) that supposedly got 36 MPG highway. They had aluminum body panels, an aluminum /6 and an aluminum 4 speed overdrive trans. 

[Achto 27,565]

7 hours ago, tom2p said:

Monza - if I recall correctly basically a massaged Vega (?)

 

True, the Chevrolet Monza was built on a Vega platform, but was not the car that was used for the Tesduo. The Chevrolet Monza was available with an in line 4cyl, V6, or V8 liquid cooled front mounted engine.

 

'79 Chevrolet Monza Spyder.

 

The Testudo  used the rear engine, air cooled opposed, 6cyl Chevrolet Corvair platform.

 

'64 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder.

 

[tom2p 2,394]

16 hours ago, ZXT said:

The smallest engine you could get in an Aspen was a 225 /6, which would've been around 105 HP due to all of the smog garbage. With the 4 speed OD, they got high 20's from people I've talked to.. High teens with an auto or a 3 on the tree. Here's what the EPA rated them at. Page 4 on this link will show you the specs for the Aspen. https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/1976_feg.pdf

 

High 20s (or even 30 MPG as the link shows) is a far cry from muscle car fuel economy!

 

There were also versions of the Duster and Dart (Feather duster, and Dart Lite) that supposedly got 36 MPG highway. They had aluminum body panels, an aluminum /6 and an aluminum 4 speed overdrive trans. 

worked part time at a service station during high school and college days ... neighbor had a nice sized station with around 8 bays plus body shop and two tow trucks

 

one of my jobs was 'petroleum distribution engineer' ... lol ... pumped gas ... self service was just beginning to become a thing then 

 

we had a customers with Dodge Aspen w / slant 6 -  some that would calculate their fuel economy - and they were getting under 20 mpg local driving 

 

one frequent customer was often under 15 mpg - which was right around what I was getting with a 396 Chevelle and 455 Olds 

 

rust holes began to form on the tops of the Aspen fenders within three or so years 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by tom2p

[tom2p 2,394]

9 hours ago, Achto said:

 

True, the Chevrolet Monza was built on a Vega platform, but was not the car that was used for the Tesduo. The Chevrolet Monza was available with an in line 4cyl, V6, or V8 liquid cooled front mounted engine.

 

'79 Chevrolet Monza Spyder.

 

The Testudo  used the rear engine, air cooled opposed, 6cyl Chevrolet Corvair platform.

 

'64 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder.

 

back in the day a friend had a Monza with a transplanted warmed over small block that would really go ... we called it 'Monzilla' ... 

 

back to the Vega - knew one guy that had a Cosworth Vega ... rare car ...

 

[tom2p 2,394]

9 hours ago, Achto said:

 

True, the Chevrolet Monza was built on a Vega platform, but was not the car that was used for the Tesduo. The Chevrolet Monza was available with an in line 4cyl, V6, or V8 liquid cooled front mounted engine.

 

'79 Chevrolet Monza Spyder.

 

The Testudo  used the rear engine, air cooled opposed, 6cyl Chevrolet Corvair platform.

 

'64 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder.

 

Corvair was a neat car and in many ways ahead of it's time 

 

fell short in some areas - and unfortunately they did not continue with the car and improve 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

10 minutes ago, tom2p said:

worked part time at a service station during high school and college days ... neighbor had a nice sized station with around 8 bays plus body shop and two tow trucks

 

one of my jobs was 'petroleum distribution engineer' ... lol ... pumped gas ... self service was just beginning to become a thing then 

 

we had a customers with Dodge Aspen w / slant 6 -  some that would calculate their fuel economy - and they were getting under 20 mpg local driving 

 

one frequent customer was often under 15 mpg - which was right around what I was getting with a 396 Chevelle and 455 Olds 

 

rust holes began to form on the tops of the Aspen fenders within three or so years 

 

short story 

 

the one Aspen owner was senior that did not hear well ... had two hearing aids ...

 

he hung around the station a lot 

 

one time when he was in the station I tied a bunch of empty oil cans to the back / underneath of his car with metal wire 

 

he drove home like that and did not realize - until later when his wife saw them 

he was not happy ... we did not see him for a couple of weeks lol

 

[squonk 41,071]

56 minutes ago, tom2p said:

worked part time at a service station during high school and college days ... neighbor had a nice sized station with around 8 bays plus body shop and two tow trucks

 

one of my jobs was 'petroleum distribution engineer' ... lol ... pumped gas ... self service was just beginning to become a thing then 

 

we had a customers with Dodge Aspen w / slant 6 -  some that would calculate their fuel economy - and they were getting under 20 mpg local driving 

 

one frequent customer was often under 15 mpg - which was right around what I was getting with a 396 Chevelle and 455 Olds 

 

rust holes began to form on the tops of the Aspen fenders within three or so years 

 

You're being kind with the Aspen/Duster/Volare/Dart rust schedule. They started rotting while on the transporter on the way to the dealer. 

[squonk 41,071]

I graduated from College in 79 with a degree in Automotive Technology. What a time for a budding auto mechanic. Emissions, Coumputer carbs, Early EFI, Chevy Citations Ford Escorts, K cars, Chevettes,  RENAULTS STILL BEING SOLD IN THE US!!! You get the picture. Almost got killed working under a Citation hood. Laying across the engine and a Blazer with no brakes slams into the back stuffing the citation into a wall and the hood coming down on me.

 

My mom had a 76 Dart with a 225. Brand new a Vega with no motor could out run it. Numerous recalls for it. Finally she trades it in for a 79 Monza. She even ORDERED the Monza to get the color she wanted. I fixed the Dart problem. Remove the little weight for the accelerator pump and substituted a lighter ground down nail. You could now drive away from a stoplight without a tricycle passing you.

 

Monza's & Vega's. The only cars I ever saw with worse front brakes than a Chevette. Then there were the Olds Diesels. When they came in blown up. We'd take bets on the cause. One of them a rod broke went into the cam and the cam came thru the intake manifold and broke the injector pump! 

[squonk 41,071]

55 minutes ago, tom2p said:

short story 

 

the one Aspen owner was senior that did not hear well ... had two hearing aids ...

 

he hung around the station a lot 

 

one time when he was in the station I tied a bunch of empty oil cans to the back / underneath of his car with metal wire 

 

he drove home like that and did not realize - until later when his wife saw them 

he was not happy ... we did not see him for a couple of weeks lol

 

We used to do that to all the guys in the shop. The baby carriage was the funniest one. The salesmen came running out thinking he hooked someone's carriage and there was a baby still in it! 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,297]

I think you guys have mentioned every crap car I ever own . I had a Datson (sp) that actual caught fire near the transmission while driving down the interstate to work . Pull into work , threw some water on it and called a buddy with a tow truck who haul it to the scrapper for me . Ha ha

[squonk 41,071]

I had a 61 Falcon that the RR wheel caught fire one night. I didn't know what was going on but it stunk bad. I yelled at the guys in the back seat about smoking grass in my car. Went to stop and no brakes. Finally got it stopped. Got it in the shop pulled the drum and the shoes fell to the ground. There was a big hole where the wheel cylinder used to be.

[Achto 27,565]

5 hours ago, squonk said:

Then there were the Olds Diesels.

 

The Olds diesels and the GM truck diesels of that era were basically Olds 5.7 gasoline engines converted to diesel. These engines rattled like no other diesel I've ever heard and didn't have enough power to get out of its own way.  What was learned by this experiment?  It is ok to convert a diesel engine to run on gasoline, LP, or Natural Gas but a gasoline engine is just not heavy enough to convert to diesel.

 

Olds 5.7 engines were a hot item in my area. My friend & I would buy a GM diesel truck with a junk engine for very little money and replace the engine with an Olds 5.7 because it was a direct fit. It was a good way to flip a truck for a decent profit.

[tom2p 2,394]

5 hours ago, squonk said:

We used to do that to all the guys in the shop. The baby carriage was the funniest one. The salesmen came running out thinking he hooked someone's carriage and there was a baby still in it! 

oh that's good real good 

 

wish I would have thought about that !

[tom2p 2,394]

5 hours ago, squonk said:

I graduated from College in 79 with a degree in Automotive Technology. What a time for a budding auto mechanic. Emissions, Coumputer carbs, Early EFI, Chevy Citations Ford Escorts, K cars, Chevettes,  RENAULTS STILL BEING SOLD IN THE US!!! You get the picture. 

The owner of the service station where I worked observed what you described - and he anticipated future challenges for the small independent repair shops.

 

He had just a 6th grade education - but still one of the smartest people I've worked with.

 

This was not a company owned station - he owned the property, building, equipment, etc.  The business was later sold - building leveled - and property leased to a convenience store (99 yr lease to Sheetz).

 

[ZXT 2,401]

6 hours ago, squonk said:

You're being kind with the Aspen/Duster/Volare/Dart rust schedule. They started rotting while on the transporter on the way to the dealer. 

I've seen rusty floors in them from water leakage and carpet holding water, but never seen one with bad external rust. Might get some in the quarters behind the wheels where dirt packed and stayed for 40 years but that's about it. 

5 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I think you guys have mentioned every crap car I ever own . I had a Datson (sp) that actual caught fire near the transmission while driving down the interstate to work . Pull into work , threw some water on it and called a buddy with a tow truck who haul it to the scrapper for me . Ha ha

What kind of Datsun was it? They were generally pretty good cars. 

26 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

The Olds diesels and the GM truck diesels of that era were basically Olds 5.7 gasoline engines converted to diesel. These engines rattled like no other diesel I've ever heard and didn't have enough power to get out of its own way.  What was learned by this experiment?  It is ok to convert a diesel engine to run on gasoline, LP, or Natural Gas but a gasoline engine is just not heavy enough to convert to diesel.

 

Olds 5.7 engines were a hot item in my area. My friend & I would buy a GM diesel truck with a junk engine for very little money and replace the engine with an Olds 5.7 because it was a direct fit. It was a good way to flip a truck for a decent profit.

Now we're talking actual junk. People above talk about /6's being slow. They were slow, but they were bulletproof and did what they were designed to well. The 5.7 was a joke at 105 HP and wasn't durable. The 6.2's were slightly better but liked to break cranks for no reason.