312-8 climbs up but rolls down hill

[Jhatch13 31]

Hello, I just purchased a new to me wheelhorse 312-8. I have a very steep hill that my 211-4 eats for lunch. The 312 will climb the hill like a mountain goat, but it rolls down the hill at high speeds until I get to a flat spot, then the transmission re-engages and slows it down. Any idea what the issue might be?

[wallfish 16,984]

In 1st gear it should definitely slow the tractor down. Does the brake work?

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

I had that same issue myself. My yard is hilly as well. I ended up getting 110 pound weights  to put on the back which helped immensely plus you might want to put ag tires on the back as well

T😎

[Jhatch13 31]

The brakes work on flat ground and small grades, but not on the steep hill. I thought weight amd traction might be an issue, but Im 250lbs, and it is not sliding or skidding down. The wheels are rolling. I would think that if it was a transmission issue, it would slip while climbing also.

[Jhatch13 31]

Thanks for the welcome!

[lynnmor 7,302]

I believe that the engine puts the belt under tension on the straight pull side of the pulleys, but the transmission can't put near the tension on the belt as it works against the idler pulley.  So my guess is belt slippage not allowing much engine braking.  A new belt and gas spring or idler spring might help.

[dcrage 627]

I know you say you aren’t sliding BUT I know from 30 years of experience on my 310-8 that is exactly what happens on my steep hills. The best advice I have is to NOT hit the brake and to ride it out  letting you transmission take back over when you are off the steepest part. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by dcrage

[Jhatch13 31]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I believe that the engine puts the belt under tension on the straight pull side of the pulleys, but the transmission can't put near the tension on the belt as it works against the idler pulley.  So my guess is belt slippage not allowing much engine braking.  A new belt and gas spring or idler spring might help.

Thanks for the info! I thought belt slippage might be an issue, but was curious as to why it wouldn't slip uphill also. Should be a cheap experiment to try.  The last time was quite the ride......the right steering linkage popped off halfway down and I had no control at all. I thought it was going to flip.

[lynnmor 7,302]

Just now, Jhatch13 said:

Thanks for the info! I thought belt slippage might be an issue, but was curious as to why it wouldn't slip uphill also. Should be a cheap experiment to try.  The last time was quite the ride......the right steering linkage popped off halfway down and I had no control at all. I thought it was going to flip.

When the engine is pulling, the belt has a straight pull between the pulleys drawing them down into the grooves giving good friction.  When the transmission is pulling against the engine, the belt runs thru the idler and friction is limited to the tension idler can create.

[Jhatch13 31]

2 minutes ago, dcrage said:

I know you say you aren’t sliding BUT I know from 30 years of experience on my 310-8 that is exactly what happens on my steep hills. The best advice I have is too NOT hit the brake and to ride it out  letting you transmission take back over when you are off the steepest part. 

I have tried it 3 times,  once without the brakes applied and pulling upwards on the clutch thinking maybe the spring had lost tension. Same results. I would agree that sliding was the cause, but two people were watching and said the wheels were spinning, not sliding.  I thought maybe the hub keys were sheared, but I would expect it to slip on climbing too if that was the case.

[Tuneup 1,433]

All three generations of mine do this (C-120, 125 and 516). The weight shifts forward and while the trans is turning fully as it should, there is slip on the ground. You should be able to see the tearing of the ground as I can and it is a heck of a ride. Try it in neutral with the brake and she'll let go just the same. I do better on turfs in either direction. The Ags are just terrible on the hills - the 125. Headed up the hill easily like the beast it is. I have a 40° and wouldn't think of heading down forward. I'd be in the trees. I'm going to add weight sooner or later. Need that stability. Good luck!

[stevasaurus 22,707]

I believe your 211-4 is a vertical shaft horse, the belt is more like a 2 sheave and with those tension pulleys will not let the transmission run away.  Your  312-8 just has 1 tension pulley going for it, and your engine just is not going to be able to hang onto your transmission.  A new TORO belt and tension spring should make a difference.  I think I would try low range / 2nd gear and see if that helps.  What ever you try...DO NOT put any sticky stuff on the belt of pulleys!  The belt and guard are your clutch, and if the belt is sticky, it will not function as it should.  You will be grinding gears when shifting.   

[ronhatch 406]

Install a little stronger spring on the drive belt idler. 

 

[JCM 9,130]

 To   @Jhatch13  , hopefully you will figure out your issue soon as we like to keep our new members around a long while, we don't like to hear of tractor mishap horror stories. Great tractor that  312-8 you will enjoy it very much.    Good luck with it.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

And please re check your Brake.

It sounds to me there is not much friction between Brakebelt and the Pulley as it should if pedal is pressed

Maybe an adjusting solve this issue.

 

my first thaughts after read your description is worn Belt or wrong beltsize together with a lame Tensioner spring.

 

 

 

[squonk 41,022]

Here is a test. Back up the hill Get someone to help hold you at the top since your brake doesn't work well. Put it in first and see if the tractor will go down the hill slowly or at least a different rate of descent. If it does, your belt is slipping going backwards as the others here have described.

Edited June 21, 2020 by squonk

[Stormin 9,981]

Can't help you I'm afraid, as where I am I've no steep hills. But  .

[rmaynard 15,427]

So if I am understanding the question, you have no problem pulling up the hill. But when you turn the tractor around and go back down, the engine/transmission is not holding back.

I would suggest that the more weight that you have, the more momentum you are going to build up. I would suggest that the engine may be lacking compression, the belt is slipping, and applying the brake is doing nothing because it is worn or not adjusted properly. Replace the belt first of all. Checking compression is not easy. 

 

I'm going to pitch a sale here. My brake linings might help if you are not getting much braking from your existing one. 

[Lee1977 6,642]

Replace the tie rod ends with heims joints they can't come off like clamped ball ends.

[Jhatch13 31]

I appreciate everyones input. I will try a new  belt, but the hill just may be too steep. I bought the 312 as I thought the hill may be to hard on the 211's aluminum transaxle. If i cant go up and down the hill, the 312 will be as good as a paperweight for my needs. I may just have to sell the 312 and look for another 211 as a backup.

 

On a side note, i did just find a replacement hood and grill for my buddies 856, and i got a line on a 1055 for sale, so the day hasnt been a total wash.

[dcrage 627]

“I would agree that sliding was the cause, but two people were watching and said the wheels were spinning, not sliding. “

Are you sure they didn’t see a wheel spinning backwards. One of them will do that when sliding. 

[Lee1977 6,642]

312-8's came with three drive belt ways to tighten the drive belt. The only one that works is the clutch spring. Most of use have taken the other stuff off and replace with the clutch spring on the left side above the brake. I can't fine the spring number I'm sure some one will be along with then spring number shortly. Even if it has the spring it's getting close to 30 years old and need replacing.

 

Clutch spring 107938

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Lee1977

[JCM 9,130]

Clutch spring # 108035  ?

[Jhatch13 31]

51 minutes ago, dcrage said:

“I would agree that sliding was the cause, but two people were watching and said the wheels were spinning, not sliding. “

Are you sure they didn’t see a wheel spinning backwards. One of them will do that when sliding. 

Pretty sure they were both rolling the same way. Ive slid on the 211 before if the grass was wet and it feels completely different and tears up the yard. This was a complete loss of control roll, kind of like a soap box derby car.

[Jhatch13 31]

43 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

312-8's came with three drive belt ways to tighten the drive belt. The only one that works is the clutch spring. Most of use have taken the other stuff off and replace with the clutch spring on the left side above the brake. I can't fine the spring number I'm sure some one will be along with then spring number shortly. Even if it has the spring it's getting close to 30 years old and need replacing.

 

Clutch spring 107938

 

Thank you. I will try the spring. When the clutch lever is released the pedal snaps back into place with authority.  I can also not pull it towards me with my toe while sitting on the tractor like you can typically with other worn springs but its  cheap enough to try.

 

I can spin the drive pulley by hand, and the belt has about 1 inch of deflection if i push it down away from the belt guard.