1975 C160 8 Spd. Drive Belt Idler Pulley Queston

[Mike C160 251]

Greetings

 

I'm new here and this C160 I just brought home. I am changing the drive belt and I noticed something that I want to be certain of.

 

With the clutch pedal depressed, the belt still drives the tranny and it will grind gears it you allow it during shifting..  

 

I see on the top of the idler pulley what looks like a belt brake that when the pedal is depressed, the little tab of metal is to stop the belt from spinning yet clear the belt when you let off the clutch. It is not currently set that way, but looks like it should be.

 

Is this assumption correct?  

 

Thanks and Cheers

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

Did you have the belt guard on? When the belt is loose it must land on the bottom lip of the guard which supports the belt so the engine pulley gets some slack. If the belt sags it will not slip at the engine pulley. Common question.

 

Garry

[Mike C160 251]

4 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Did you have the belt guard on? When the belt is loose it must land on the bottom lip of the guard which supports the belt so the engine pulley gets some slack. If the belt sags it will not slip at the engine pulley. Common question.

 

Garry

Ok so you are saying that little tab of metal on the top of the idler pulley is not designed to be a belt break?

 

Correct I did not have the cover on.

 

Thanks.

[rjg854 11,481]

The cover must be on for the belt to be slack enough to slip on the engine pulley 

[ebinmaine 68,345]

 

 

I believe the little tab of metal on the top of the idler pulley bracket is to keep the belt on the idler pulley but not serve as a belt break. The belt break is actually one of the tabs that is on the front of the belt guard. With these particular tractors the belt GUARD is also your belt GUIDE.

 

Without the belt guard in place you have no clutching mechanism and hence should not be able to shift.

 

You've got yourself one of the most sought-after Horse models there in that c-160. They are a great machine that is plenty powerful.

We would love to see pictures of your tractor and also the model number so Garry could add it to the list.

[oliver2-44 9,860]

[953 nut 55,771]

13 hours ago, Mike C160 said:

little tab of metal on the top of the idler pulley is not designed to be a belt break?

The tab is there to be sure the belt wil remain on the pulley while the belt is slack.

 

[Racinbob 11,221]

13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

I believe the little tab of metal on the top of the idler pulley bracket is to keep the belt on the idler pulley but not serve as a belt break. 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The tab is there to be sure the belt wil remain on the pulley while the belt is slack.

 

 

I believe that's the main reason but I also think it does assist in stopping the belt. Not as a replacement for the guard but an added bit of assistance. I'll be experimenting today with this very thing. I recently posted about some pulley swapping on my 854 to get a bit more speed. When the stock pulleys and 70" belt were on it there wasn't enough clearance to allow for that tab on the idler. It would bump up to the Sheetmetal not allowing a tight engagement. With the 3" engine pulley and 71" belt, same thing. With the 3" engine and 3.5" transmission pulleys and 70" belt there's plenty of room. With the former two setups belt stopping wasn't an issue but it did lose the belt once. With my final setup belt stopping isn't an issue for me but I have to be careful. Adjusting the clutch pedal so it didn't depress so far before the brake stopped it cleared up that issue but I have one of those tabs so I'll be putting it on this morning since I now have the clearance. When the idler is tensioning the pulley the tab is totally clear of the belt. When the clutch is depressed the tab kinda grabs the belt thereby helping it to stop. Pictures and more later today. 

[Ed Kennell 38,646]

                                                                                    As everyone stated, the belt guard must be installed to support the slack belt  preventing it from gripping the engine drive pulley.

To answer your question about the tab on the idler pulley,  it does  prevent the slack belt from coming off the pulley, but IMO, it also adds resistance to the slack belt and helps to stop it from moving.   In fact, some belt guards have a tab in line with the pulley tab that actually pinches the belt when the clutch is depressed.

If the pulley tab is adjustable, it should be set for max clearance to the belt with the belt under tension.

When the clutch is depressed it should pinch the belt against the belt guard tab.

 

 

 

[Racinbob 11,221]

The first picture is with the 3" engine and 3.5" input pulleys and 70" belt.. Good clearance from the Sheetmetal above it. With the stock setup there was less than 1/4" clearance and the tab couldn't be installed. I have now and a tab installed and you can see how it pinches the belt. I'm thinking that possibility Wheel Horse installed the tab simply to keep the belt on the pulley and then discovered the extra perk.. The earlier tabs didn't have the ends flared up. 

 

 

 

[R. L. Addison 299]

Do you have any belt guides on the engine? When clutch is pushed in, it is released clear of the engine pulley thus opening the drive from the engine. The belt guides on the engine keep the belt from making a radius that drags in the belt thus continueing the drive, where the proper belt guides, properly adjusted, keep the belt from draging by holding it in a smaller radius allowing it to clear the pulley. These should be adjusted to not more than 1/8" from pulley to catch the belt when clutch is released.

 

I have just bought a length of 3/16 rod to make new guides for a couple tractors I' m going through at this time.

[Mike C160 251]

Ok,

 

First off, thanks to all of you for your welcome and input. 

 

So heres what I have learned / discovered. 

 

1) Belt cover did indeed need to be on. I can see and understand that now. The bottom of the guard supports the belt allowing slack around the engine pulley. 

 

2) The idler wheel. I asked this question as the one on my machine had been bent and chewed up a bit by a previous backyard mechanic. So I straighten it back to factory shape. Indeed it does two things. 1) it provides guidance to keep the belt on when slack and 2) it most certainly acts as a belt brake when the clutch is depress. Both of these functions make perfect sense. 

 

With the guard on and the idler pulley set up to clear when in drive mode and pinch when the clutch is depressed the unit now shifts very smoothly. 

 

Now on to many other service items this unit needs :)

 

Cheers!

[Mike C160 251]

18 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

I believe the little tab of metal on the top of the idler pulley bracket is to keep the belt on the idler pulley but not serve as a belt break. The belt break is actually one of the tabs that is on the front of the belt guard. With these particular tractors the belt GUARD is also your belt GUIDE.

 

Without the belt guard in place you have no clutching mechanism and hence should not be able to shift.

 

You've got yourself one of the most sought-after Horse models there in that c-160. They are a great machine that is plenty powerful.

We would love to see pictures of your tractor and also the model number so Garry could add it to the list.

Eric

 

I will attempt to get a photo and the numbers off the machine later today. 

 

This machine has been in constant service for 45 years! it looks a little rough around the edges but when it comes right down to it, it still functions very well. 

 

I hope to ding a few more and put one very nice machine together someday. 

 

I got the 36 inch deck, tiller and a push blade with it. But the push blade is missing its harness sadly.

 

I was looking at a Hydro model. Do the trannys stand up in these machines or do they fail?

 

Cheers

[ebinmaine 68,345]

3 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

Hydro

In our home fleet we have 4 standard transmission horses.

I'm actually working on a project right now that is a 1970 Charger which is very similar to a hydro that would have been in a c160.

 

I have no real world experience yet but many others of us do and from what I understand if they are maintained a little bit they are very very rugged.

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Some guys have loaders on hydro units. That should answer your question....

[Mike C160 251]

19 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

We would love to see pictures of your tractor and also the model number so Garry could add it to the list.

Ok,

 

Heres a photo of the ol girl along with the model # and serial #

 

I suppose you have a registry of some sort.

 

Cheers

[ebinmaine 68,345]

4 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

registry

@gwest_ca

Garry keeps one. Yes.

 

Very nice looking tractor!

 

[Mike C160 251]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@gwest_ca

Garry keeps one. Yes.

 

Very nice looking tractor!

 

Well its a little rough around the edges for sure. 

 

However for some odd reason, I feel the need to restore it. I dont feel the need to modify it or make it something its not, rather just as it came from the factory.  I am currently looking for other C160's in my area and they are not common at all. So far I have found one hydro one.

 

On mine, the rear fender under the seat is bent as the previous owner backed it into a wall. Its dented up and folded pretty bad. 

 

Right now its getting all the things it has been deprived of for so many year. A fluid flushes and change, air filter plug, points and condenser, fuel pump and fuel filter, gas tank flush, new drive belt and I am fabricating a lift cable for the tiller.

 

So, much needed service first, Pretty stuff later. 

 

Cheers

[ebinmaine 68,345]

13 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

 

Right now its getting all the things it has been deprived of for so many year

Excellent.

 

You could do a search on this site for baseline or baselining and you'll see some threads of what everyone does to tractors when they take them in.

 

You may want to order up a shift boot for it.

Any kind of Parts you need just ask. Many of us have multiple sources to get ahold of the day-to-day items that we need.

 

Pictures are good. Videos are good. A lot of us five-year-olds really do like to read picture books.

 

The more you use that tractor the more impressed by it you will be.

 

[Mike C160 251]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Excellent.

 

You could do a search on this site for baseline or baselining and you'll see some threads of what everyone does to tractors when they take them in.

 

You may want to order up a shift boot for it.

Any kind of Parts you need just ask. Many of us have multiple sources to get ahold of the day-to-day items that we need.

 

Pictures are good. Videos are good. A lot of us five-year-olds really do like to read picture books.

 

The more you use that tractor the more impressed by it you will be.

 

 

Great to know. Thank you

 

I got a feeling im going to need a rear hub.  Looks like it was drifting... they added spacers and tapped the set screw larger....

 

So, not great.

 

Cheers

 

[ebinmaine 68,345]

9 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

rear hub

Get a hold of Lincoln at A to Z tractor and order one up that is the later heavy duty style with 2 set screws.

 

Start spraying your favorite penetrating fluid in the one that's on your tractor now. Those can be a regular booger to get off of the axle because of rust welding.

When you go to remove it do NOT use a standard 3 jaw puller. Look up the thread that shows how to do it using another hub as the pulling mechanism. If you don't have a spare hub like some of us, get one from Lincoln for like 5 or $10. It'll be worth every single cent.

 

If you get it taken apart and you don't like the look of the axle don't get too alarmed. Removing and disassembling the transmission isn't super difficult with these at all.

 

 

 

[Mike C160 251]

19 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Get a hold of Lincoln at A to Z tractor and order one up that is the later heavy duty style with 2 set screws.

 

Start spraying your favorite penetrating fluid in the one that's on your tractor now. Those can be a regular booger to get off of the axle because of rust welding.

When you go to remove it do NOT use a standard 3 jaw puller. Look up the thread that shows how to do it using another hub as the pulling mechanism. If you don't have a spare hub like some of us, get one from Lincoln for like 5 or $10. It'll be worth every single cent.

 

If you get it taken apart and you don't like the look of the axle don't get too alarmed. Removing and disassembling the transmission isn't super difficult with these at all.

 

 

 

 

Yep, you're right. Needs a shift boot. Get it from A to Z?

 

Do those shifter knobs screw off?

 

Cheers

[ebinmaine 68,345]

19 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

 

Yep, you're right. Needs a shift boot. Get it from A to Z?

 

Do those shifter knobs screw off?

 

Cheers

Shift boot you can get from Wheel Horse parts and more. Check all four of your transmission seals to make sure they are in good shape. He would have those if you need them as well.

 

Shift knobs do screw off. Yes. Many of them have a set screw in the base.

 

[Mike C160 251]

31 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Shift boot you can get from Wheel Horse parts and more. Check all four of your transmission seals to make sure they are in good shape. He would have those if you need them as well.

 

Shift knobs do screw off. Yes. Many of them have a set screw in the base.

 

 

Sorry Eric another question. 

 

The cable for the tiller lift is broken. Since the outer sheath is still there, I was going to get a piece of aircraft cable and clamps then make one up. 

I have a guy on another site telling me to use threaded rod instead. Its this so? I didn't think it was a straight shot from the lever to the tiller.

 

Cheers

[ebinmaine 68,345]

No apologies. Keep asking questions. That's what we are here for.

 

There's been a couple different discussions about using a solid rod versus a cable.

I might not be the best authority on that because we don't have any implements other than a snow/dozer plow and a belly mount grader.

 

My own personal inclination would be to use a cable because I like the flexibility that it would have going through the transmission to seat bucket tunnel.

There are folks on this site that could tell you how to run a solid piece of rod through that tunnel.

 

I'm not sure how to tell you to search for it but there was a fairly recent Thread about that.

 

If you can make a good strength cable with properly attached ends, great. If not, maybe Lowell at Wheel Horse parts and more?