Blades on RM-367 deck hit each other when PTO engaged.

[dgrondy 3]

Hello, apologies If this topic is created and addressed already, I did not find it. I have a 1967 six speed(model 1067) with an RL-367 mowing deck. This looks identical to the RM-367 deck as far as I see. Issue is the blades are hitting each other when they are engaged but they do not hit each other when I spin blades by hand freely.  Do the blades need to be timed manually in order to rectify this? I do have them at 90 deg from each other. Can anyone provide insight on this?  Thank you very much.

Edited June 10, 2020 by dgrondy
added words

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

If the blades are positioned 90 degrees apart, they can not hit unless something is slipping under load.   A blade or gear.    Block one blade and try to turn the other blade to locate the problem.    Wear gloves and be careful.

 

to the 

[dgrondy 3]

Gotcha Ed. There's definitely something slipping under load. So blocking one blade and manually turning the other blade? 

[cafoose 3,354]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

they can not hit unless something is slipping under load

Check for a broken key on one of the shafts:

 

 

[dgrondy 3]

The only shaft I see is the horizontal shaft (4112 shaft) piece #32 on above parts viewer. Is this the shaft you are referring to? Or could it be the key on the 3724 'spindle' which is shown above at #7? If it's the latter, is there any way to get to the key on the vertical spindle(#7 above) other than removing the right-side deck blade? The blade nut on that blade is completely seized and rounded so I'd have to cut it off as no wrench will work, ugh.

Edited June 17, 2020 by dgrondy
had to add more info

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

5 hours ago, dgrondy said:

.

   

[dgrondy 3]

The only shaft I see is the horizontal shaft (4112 shaft) piece #32 on above parts viewer. Is this the shaft you are referring to? Or could it be the key on the 3724 'spindle' which is shown above at #7? If it's the latter, is there any way to get to the key on the vertical spindle(#7 above) other than removing the right-side deck blade? The blade nut on that blade is completely seized and rounded so I'd have to cut it off as no wrench will work, ugh.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

I think you can.

Do you know for sure that key is missing? Gear is spining on the spindle?

Take the cover off the gears. There is a retaining ring #12 you will see on top of the gear. That is all that holds the shaft in. Block the blade up so when the retailing ring is off the shaft does not drop out the bottom. If that happens the thrust bearing and thrust washers can fall out too.

Once the retaining ring is off let the blade down about the thickness of the gear so the bearing stays in place on the spindle. Then you should be able to lift the gear off the shaft I think. Long time since I have done it.

If it will not lift off loosen the two bolts holding the horizontal shaft bearing block and you can lift the horizontal shaft enough for the gear to clear.

Have lots of grease rags handy.

 

Garry

 

 

[dgrondy 3]

Thanks Garry. I can only suspect the key on the spindle is baked or missing because when i spin the right-side blade by hand while watching the gear on the spindle, the gear does spin but after a few more turns of the blade only the spindle spins and not the gear.  That's got to be slippage I suspect.

[dgrondy 3]

@Ed Kennell sorry for the empty post above @ 

On 6/17/2020 at 9:44 AM  I tried to delete it but not sure I can.

[dgrondy 3]

Here are a couple pics of what I have. Again this the right side(as Im sitting on tractor) blade spindle. The spur gear spins freely on the spindle with the key(#11 in diagram above) in. Is this key not right? i.e. has it been shaved off to where it's not functioning?

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

Yes, it appears the key sheared off.     I don't see a key slot in the shaft.     Is half of the key in the shaft slot and smeared over such that you do not see it?

[dgrondy 3]

The spindle(shaft) is completely smooth all the way around. I don't even see a key slot in the shaft. The only key slot i see is in the center of the spur gear as shown. But.. that doesn't make any sense for there not to be a key slot in the spindle. What would be the point of a key then, right? I'll have to look again. BRB.

[dgrondy 3]

Ahhh. Ed you nailed it! I wiped the spindle off completely(duh) and there she is! Key is sheared and half was in the shaft/spindle slot. Hey I need a new key! Awesome. Thanks Thanks.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

The 937084 key is a Woodruff #5 listed as 1/8" x 5/8" but will be slightly shorter than that.

 

Garry

[71_Bronco 1,072]

If you cant get the key out, let me know, I have a couple spare spindles that should work for you.

[dgrondy 3]

20 minutes ago, 71_Bronco said:

If you cant get the key out, let me know, I have a couple spare spindles that should work for you.

I did get the key out but thank you.

[dgrondy 3]

59 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The 937084 key is a Woodruff #5 listed as 1/8" x 5/8" but will be slightly shorter than that.

 

Garry

Ok thanks for the heads up Garry.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

Take a good look at the snap ring. When made they are stamped. One side will have sharp edges and the other side rounded. Install it with the sharp edge facing up. It will hold better in the groove. Have seen the rounded edges pop off under pressure.

 

Garry

[dgrondy 3]

11 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Take a good look at the snap ring. When made they are stamped. One side will have sharp edges and the other side rounded. Install it with the sharp edge facing up. It will hold better in the groove. Have seen the rounded edges pop off under pressure.

 

Garry

Garry, will do. I just hope I can get the same snap ring back in place once I put the new woodruff key in. I may need to get a new snap ring in case I widened it out too much when I removed it. Thanks again.

[dgrondy 3]

Ok I have the new woodruff key(#11) for the blade spindle(#7)/spur gear(#10) assembly. Is there any secret to getting the key in place on the spindle while sliding the spur gear down the spindle and getting the key into the gear inner groove? Once I set the key into the slot on the spindle I don't have enough room to slide the gear on the spindle. Looks like I need to remove the 3130 gear(#39) in order to give me enough space to slide the spur gear on to the spindle. Is this the only way?  Thank you thank you

[71_Bronco 1,072]

If I recall correctly, to do mine, I did the following:

 

1. Unbolt the bearing block for the cross shaft, allowing it to lift up.

2. Slide spindle / blade up from the bottom and insert key, keeping it as low as I could.

3. While lifting up the cross shaft, slide the spindle gear in at an angle to clear the zerk fitting.

4. Wiggle the spindle gear till it engages the key, and slide spindle up into the spindle gear.

 

On step 4, I didnt have enough clearance to rotate the spindle gear to get it timed properly, so I had to insert it into position while being timed to the key.

 

Keep in mind, position of the gear doesn't matter, the position of the shaft and blade do, so dont rotate the spindle shaft to meet the gear. The blades need to be 90 degrees to eachother to prevent them from hitting as you experienced.

 

Edit: if my memory serves me correctly, I did have to remove the gear on the cross shaft, but it was to replace the pair of belts. I had to remove the spindle, remove the gear, remove the bearing block, and then install the belts. I couldnt sneak them under the bearing block, so I had to remove it.

Edited June 25, 2020 by 71_Bronco

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Oh, and if you have not done so already, get that blade bolt out now while you can easily work on it. Hold the shaft in a padded vise (or hold it by the blade), and use vise grips to grab the bolt head and turn it. Be sure to go slow and use liberal amounts of penetrating oil

[dgrondy 3]

Thanks much. By bearing block bolts you mean the 7/16 bolt nuts on surface of deck right of spindle hole? I assume there are also two of these bolts under the cross shaft gear as well?

[71_Bronco 1,072]

39 minutes ago, dgrondy said:

Thanks much. By bearing block bolts you mean the 7/16 bolt nuts on surface of deck right of spindle hole? I assume there are also two of these bolts under the cross shaft gear as well?

 

Bearing blocks are part number 36 in the diagram above. There should be a pair of bolts that can be removed from the underside of the deck. They screw up into the underside of the block, so no nuts on the top of the deck.