Steering upgrades and mods

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

So I did a search on here for folks who have beefed up the steering on the horse, found nothing. So I figured let’s start one. If one does exist, please delete this thread admin.

 

Lets see/hear everyone’s modified steering. 
 

I’m in process of building up my 310-8 front end now but no progress to show yet.

[ebinmaine 67,605]

When we restored my Cinnamon Horse the front spindle tie rod holes were oblong.

The large direction of the egg shape was 7/16.

I drilled the holes to be a full 7/16" and bought 7/16 heim joints. Built the tie rods from 7/8" stock that was drilled tapped and cut by a member of Redsquare.

 

 

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

Here is a little something @ebinmaine is doing and would be a good start. 

 

 

 

Also you can add a bearing in the steering column under the dash. I'm sure someone could post a link to that mod, I know I have seen it, but can't find it. Take it all apart, clean well and relube while shimming it all so the mesh is proper for the gears. 

 

 

 

Randy

Edited June 6, 2020 by RandyLittrell

[pacer 3,173]

Another plus in adding the Heim joints is that you can now adjust toe in/out. I swear I do believe every WH I've ever got was toed OUT something terrible, and excessive toe out makes for HARD steering!

[Lee1977 6,666]

Steering column  fix for 300 and 400 series tractors.

Flange bearing no. 6472

Tie Rods I used  1/2" heims joints.Some I bushed down to 3/8" and some places I drilled out worn holes.

I also went to the back side of the triangle as there isn't much room between the triangle and the axle.

It doesn't efect the steerig if anything it improves it.

 

Shiming the fan gear. There is always going to be some loose motion there . If you set it too tight you will be causing the gears extra wear.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Lee1977

[Lee1977 6,666]

If you realy get seroius about up greading the steering and front axle.  You can modify with trailer wheels and spindles.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Lee1977

[Lee1977 6,666]

I also reworked the worn front axle pivot after about 40 years of wear.

Made a large pin to fit. The collar is stepped drilled out the front plate to 1" the collar goes trough and is welded in place.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Lee1977

[ebinmaine 67,605]

14 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

beefed up the steering

I'll be doing several of the above combined on the Colossus build.

I've no way of comparing before and after because it's a one-off tractor but I figure it will help given the increased size/weight of the machine.

 

 

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

I agree with Pacer.I've NEVER seen a Wheel Horse that the toe-in and toe-out looked in spec.Assembly line workers must have said " Can't see it from my house. "

[johnnymag3 2,520]

23 minutes ago, Pollack Pete said:

I agree with Pacer.I've NEVER seen a Wheel Horse that the toe-in and toe-out looked in spec.Assembly line workers must have said " Can't see it from my house. "

Thats Animal abuse !!!    LOL       POOR HORSE

Edited June 6, 2020 by johnnymag3
spelling

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

I’m leaning towards a power steering upgrade. 

[Skipper 1,788]

9 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

I’m leaning towards a power steering upgrade. 

 

A link might be usefull

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

SuperATV EZ-Steer Power Steering Kit - Universal/Adaptable (220W) - Adaptable for Mini Sprints, Buggys, Side by Sides, ATV's, Rock Crawlers, Mowers & More! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D98IBFG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_9cI3EbGEN6M44

Edited June 8, 2020 by KrazeyOlDave

[Goofey 89]

220W motor that's almost 20 amps. That might be a bit much on a 15 amp charge

[pacer 3,173]

Might wanna read thru this post about EPS (electric power steering)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/1848775-35-electric-power-steering-fail-safe-no-ebay-module-no-caster-issues.html

I did it on my D180 using the Saturn parts and I was able to get it attached to the D and it worked quite well for a short time, but I found the Saturn components just would not hold up and after much frustration removed it.

My ultimate goal was to get my little Mitsubishi 4wd with FEL set up with EPS and after finding a Hyundai unit - motor and ECU - ---- and several HOURS work I was successful and the improvement was dramatic, even with a full bucket. Has been on it now for about 3-3 1/2 yrs and still going.

[ebinmaine 67,605]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:36 PM, KrazeyOlDave said:

beefed up the steering on the horse

 

Been searching the interwebs for info on how to add universal joints to replace the fan gear/bevel gear set-up on a Horse. 

 

I've found this article I thought maybe some o' yous might find interesting. 

 

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/street-rod-steering-made-simple/

 

 

The reason I've been looking of late is specifically for Colossus and if it's anywhere near not super difficult I'd consider the modification for other horses as well.  

 

 

[RJR49 129]

My C-160 has adjustable tie rods but, other than a Mark 1, Mod 0, eyeball I don't know a way to adjust them with more with more finesse. Any help would be appreciated.  BTW, I wish I had seen that when my frame broke and tractor parts were taking up my whole 2 car garage! Has anyone tried it?

 

Also BTW. I just realized how old that picture of me is. I'm happy to say that the Tux still fit, but I can't figure out how 10 years have passed!

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by RJR49
update & punction correction

[ebinmaine 67,605]

5 hours ago, RJR49 said:

adjustable tie rods but, other than a Mark 1, Mod 0, eyeball I don't know a way to adjust them with more with more finesse. Any help would be appreciated

 

What I do is take 2 of something that can be clamped together like sticks or in my case, metal rulers. 

 

Hold them together and clamp them at the size that fits between the inside of the WHEEL. Check the distances of the front and rear of the wheel and adjust accordingly.  

 

Here's the setup as I was checking the Big boy tractor last week.  

 

[kpinnc 12,088]

One thing to remember is that the lower steering pivot (where the fan gear shaft and steering shaft meet) is oblong left and right of center from the factory. I'm referring to the most vertical hole, not the horizontal one. The consensus is that is so gease can get down around the end of the steering shaft. It is not an indication of wear.

[ebinmaine 67,605]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

the lower steering pivot (where the fan gear shaft and steering shaft meet

 

I'm looking to eliminate that entirely on Colossus and perhaps others.

Thinking I might switch over to u-joints.

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:57 PM, RandyLittrell said:

the mesh is proper for the gears. 

How do you get the specs for the mesh for the gears and how do you set it ?

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

2 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

How do you get the specs for the mesh for the gears and how do you set it ?

 

I do things like that by look and feel. You take it all apart, clean the old grease out and lube everything thing well. With wheel horse steering you can add or remove shims to adjust mesh. You want gears to have the tiniest bit of play but still rotate freely lock to lock.

 

 

Randy

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

7 minutes ago, RandyLittrell said:

 

I do things like that by look and feel. You take it all apart, clean the old grease out and lube everything thing well. With wheel horse steering you can add or remove shims to adjust mesh. You want gears to have the tiniest bit of play but still rotate freely lock to lock.

 

 

Randy

Thanks @RandyLittrell… I believe I seen some shims- thick/thin washers at my local hardware in those little pull out boxes.

I know they’re not washers, I just don’t know the proper term for them…

I’ll grab a variation of thicknesses…

[wallfish 17,011]

17 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm looking to eliminate that entirely on Colossus and perhaps others.

Thinking I might switch over to u-joints.

What are your plans for the "gear reduction" part of the steering?. I may have missed something. A direct connection with only U joints will leave about a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel lock to lock and be VERY difficult to turn. Just a WAG as I never measured anything but the normal steering gear reduction is probably about 12:1 (The 520 gear reduction steering is even more)

3 full ish turns of the steering wheel equals about 1/4 ish turn of the steering rod to the tie rods. 

[ebinmaine 67,605]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

What are your plans for the "gear reduction" part of the steering?. I may have missed something. A direct connection with only U joints will leave about a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel lock to lock and be VERY difficult to turn. Just a WAG as I never measured anything but the normal steering gear reduction is probably about 12:1 (The 520 gear reduction steering is even more)

3 full ish turns of the steering wheel equals about 1/4 ish turn of the steering rod to the tie rods. 

 

I haven't exactly solved that part fully.

The steering wheel I'm using is substantially larger than stock which will help with the leverage effect, of course. But it won't be the end-all to the situation.