7" Gauge Wheels for 42" SD

[svt721 7]

Into my second season of mowing with a 312-8 and a 42" SD deck and like many of you have found that even on the highest setting it cuts too low.  When I got the machine, I went through and replaced the gauge wheels, anti scalp wheels, and a lot of the worn adjustment hardware for the gauge wheel height adjustment.  Also took the whole gauge wheel assembly off to align and tighten it down.  I'd like to get another 0.5-1" of cut height out of the deck and have read about using 7" gauge wheels on here. Wondering if there was a particular compatible wheel you guys use?  I figure I'll start with the taller wheel and then shim the height adjustment bracket with fender washers if I need a little more height.

 

Thanks!
Mike

[roadapples 6,983]

TSC

[Skipper 1,788]

Sorry for the dumb question here. That's my specialty .

 

Why do so many like such a high cut height? I find that on the grass types we have here at least, 2" in spring and fall, and 1.5" to 1.75" in summer time is optimum. Is it due to climate, or is it the grass type, or is it something else all together? 

 

Looking forward to a bit of enlightenment

 

Thanks

[lynnmor 7,302]

My neighbor cuts about 1-1/2", I cut 3", I have green grass and he has yellow.  The green part is actually above ground.  He has plenty of crabgrass and other weeds, tall grass helps shade the crabgrass out.

[tom2p 2,394]

from quick google search 

 

basically - higher cut is better for multiple reasons (including reasons listed above by lynnmor)

 

1.5 " is min height for some types of grasses - but not recommended

 

most (if not all) Wheel Horse decks will go lower than most owners desire to go - but not high enough for many owners ... many cut with adjustment in the highest position 

 

two common complaints :  mower deck cutting height - not high enough .... and also the 2nd / 3rd gear ratios on the manual dual range transmissions - 2nd gear too slow and 3rd gear too fast (to cut) ...

 

some other common complaints ... seats and tires only last 30+ years ...  lol ... 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by tom2p

[tom2p 2,394]

btw - cut grass lower - and then  cut grass at the highest position and notice the difference in the load on the engine ...

 

might not be too noticeable with an Onan twin - but 12hp and below can be noticed 

 

[Skipper 1,788]

Hmm. Wonder why basically all mower brands have the range of about 1-2.5". Must be a climate thing too then. My grass is green, when cut to 2" and also lower. Golf courses also look nice, but I guess they water it all the time.  

[svt721 7]

Everything I've read seems to indicate that 3-3.5" is the best height for fescue/fescue mix.  Here in NC, a lot of people like to "shave" their lawns and they're usually brown and dry looking - those who cut high seem to have a more lush and green lawn.  When I lived in NJ and used a Toro push mower, I always cut in the 3-3.5" range and had great results so that's why I'd like to get the deck up higher.  I guess it also has to do with the type of grass and climate.  

 

tom2p made some great points - I have found exactly that issue with the 8 speed.  I made a gear chart in Excel a while back looking at options of running a 5.25" "Hydro" engine pulley to make 1st gear more usable in tall stuff and 2nd gear a little quicker for normal mowing.  Third would be out of the range for grass at that point.  Also played with the idea of running a 4.5" pulley on the trans.

 

Will check out Tractor supply this afternoon to see what they have as far as larger wheels.  Next will be figuring out some kind of baffle for the front of the deck to manage blowout at a high cutting height!

 

Mike

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by svt721

[Skipper 1,788]

I have been doing some digging in the differences in grass cut height.

 

Most of the US have warm climate grass types, and that is not meant for short cut height. However, the cold climate grass types used in northern parts, and specialty types on golf courses, that is indeed meant for shorter cut height. Here in the nordic countries in Europe, we pretty much solely use types that you know as cold climate and specialty types. Most often in a mix that works optimal in our climate. Often there are the same types used for golf courses in the mix, or those types alone. The standard cut height for the normal garden turf grass here is 1 1/4" up to 2". Those numbers should be the same for the equivalent types in the US. On the golf course types, it it recommended to go as low as 5/8".

 

One thing to consider though. You would have to keep it low, and not let it run free, or it wont be pretty when you cut it back down again. The bottom of the grass would then most likely be yellow. In that situation, scalp it completely, and let new leaves come up. Also there is work in keeping it rolled flat, because all little dents are seen better when it is very short. I just dont have the time to maintain my lawn as a golf course, which is why I opted for the "normal" type, so I cut 1 1/2" to 2" depending on season.

 

Perhaps there is a "cultural" thing to it also? Over here we have the idea that a lawn should be smooth, thick, lush and trimmed. Like looking at a golf course. Not sure what a nice lawn should look like in the eyes of Americans. Perhaps our viewpoint on what is ideal is different ?

 

You can see what my grass and cutheight look like if you run the video i posted here.

 

[Goofey 89]

Cant ever get tired of that diesel monster you have. I'm just north of Chicago, and my lawn looks a lot like yours. I also cut it a lot shorter than 3". More like what you do. I have no problems with it at all. I have to mow often but it looks really good. My grass seeds was specialty turf mix. Cant remember the types. Also have family down south and their grass is much different than mine.

 

Does it still cut that nice with the bigger tires you put on? I guess its like mowing in 6th or 7th fantasy gear if it was a manual. Far from what was said earlier. 2nd too slow, 3rd too fast. Manuals are not for mowing IMO.  What speed are you up to now, and does it still mow that nice?

[svt721 7]

Skipper - great information!  Didn't realize there was that much of a difference in colder climate grass.  North Carolina grass is a bit different than what we had in New Jersey, but I'm guessing it's nothing like Denmark - I forget just how far north that part of Europe is!

 

Goofey - put the 7" gauge wheels on Saturday and gained about 1/2" of height, much better!  Mowed again yesterday after a ton of rain over the weekend and I'm overall very happy with the cut.  Next piece is going to be a set of high lift blades - with the deck up that high I think it struggles to pull the grass up high enough.  Seems there's a lot of taller grass laid over.

 

Haven't started playing with pulley sizes yet so still mowing in 1st and 2nd - 1st for the header cuts and then 2nd for everything else.  Focusing right now on rebuilding the steering gear - all new bushings, new steering block (really lucky NOS find at the local Toro dealer), new tie rods from Lowell, and a new set of front spindles for the 8" wheels I swapped in last year.  Next it'll be rebuilding the deck spindles.  Later in the summer I'll try and source a 5.25" hydro pulley and see what a little more speed in 1st and 2nd does.

 

Never thought a Wheel Horse would end up being yet another project vehicle!

[balconio 606]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:45 AM, svt721 said:

Everything I've read seems to indicate that 3-3.5" is the best height for fescue/fescue mix.  Here in NC, a lot of people like to "shave" their lawns and they're usually brown and dry looking - those who cut high seem to have a more lush and green lawn.  When I lived in NJ and used a Toro push mower, I always cut in the 3-3.5" range and had great results so that's why I'd like to get the deck up higher.  I guess it also has to do with the type of grass and climate.  

 

tom2p made some great points - I have found exactly that issue with the 8 speed.  I made a gear chart in Excel a while back looking at options of running a 5.25" "Hydro" engine pulley to make 1st gear more usable in tall stuff and 2nd gear a little quicker for normal mowing.  Third would be out of the range for grass at that point.  Also played with the idea of running a 4.5" pulley on the trans.

 

Will check out Tractor supply this afternoon to see what they have as far as larger wheels.  Next will be figuring out some kind of baffle for the front of the deck to manage blowout at a high cutting height!

 

Mike

 

 

This info is awesome- exactly what i've been looking for. I'm going to try the 7" wheels for sure, i mow a field as well and currently it cuts too darn low. Do you know if changing the belt size is required when changing pulley sizes? Not sure how the calculation is done for that...

[8ntruck 6,991]

8 hours ago, balconio said:

 

This info is awesome- exactly what i've been looking for. I'm going to try the 7" wheels for sure, i mow a field as well and currently it cuts too darn low. Do you know if changing the belt size is required when changing pulley sizes? Not sure how the calculation is done for that...

There might be enough extra motion in your clutch idler pulley link age to let you get away with using your current belt on the larger pulley.

 

That being said, the proper way would be to use a longer belt.  How much longer?  Assuming that the belt will wrap about 1/2 way around the new pulley, I'd start with a belt length increase calculated as follows:  (3.14 x pulley dia. difference)/2.

 

Good luck.

[balconio 606]

i went ahead and ordered 7" deck wheels, they had 8" ones too but i figure lets see how the 7's work first. in a way it's an upgrade to stock since these ride on ball bearings instead of a greaseable bushing. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PXM1NMY

 

also found there's a number of online belt calculators- i like this one the most so far https://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx

 

I had myself pretty talked into the notion that i need a hydro to get the right ground speed for mowing- now i'm thinking i just need to play with the pulleys a bit. i wouldn't mind a higher final drive anyhow, to make those low range gears more useful and have a faster 3H transport gear. thanks @svt721 for getting the "gears turning" in my head on this stuff.

 

[tunahead72 2,403]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:45 AM, svt721 said:

… Will check out Tractor supply this afternoon to see what they have as far as larger wheels...

 

On 5/27/2020 at 9:55 AM, svt721 said:

... put the 7" gauge wheels on Saturday and gained about 1/2" of height, much better!  Mowed again yesterday after a ton of rain over the weekend and I'm overall very happy with the cut...

 

On 6/5/2020 at 11:01 AM, balconio said:

i went ahead and ordered 7" deck wheels, they had 8" ones too but i figure lets see how the 7's work first. in a way it's an upgrade to stock since these ride on ball bearings instead of a greaseable bushing. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PXM1NMY...

 

I've pretty much decided to get a pair of 7" wheels for my deck, for all the reasons you guys have discussed here.  So... @svt721 which wheels did you end up with?  And for both of you, did you notice any interference between your new wheels and the height adjustment mechanism, or any other part of the tractor for that matter?

 

[balconio 606]

the wheels i ordered did not work. they were just a tad too wide through the hub, so the stock bolt was not long enough and the bearings were binding after tightening. while they were on though i did get to see how the extra height would play out- and that wasn't great either... my stock 312-8 has 22x9.50-12 rear tires and 15x6-6 fronts, and the body really doesn't ride high enough to support deck wheels that are any larger than stock. In the highest cutting position the deck was basically riding as high as the lift mechanism, so dropping the lift lever didn't actually drop anything- it was never lifting the deck to begin with.

 

i might try putting the deck on my lifted 312-8 which has 25x10-12 rears and 18x6.50-8 fronts and find more suitable deck wheels, and see how that works for field mowing. i like the wheelhorses out in the field and for pulling, but honestly might start looking for a zero turn to take care of the lawn.

[tunahead72 2,403]

@balconio I noticed the wheels in your Amazon link have a centered hub, I wonder if that was part of your problem.  A longer shoulder bolt might do the trick.  Shepherd also has a couple of 7" wheels with offset hubs that might have more clearance from the height adjuster, but you might still have to use different bolts.

 

As far as your deck height, when your deck is up in the transport position, do the rubber bumpers on the deck touch the bottom of the tractor footrests like they're supposed to?

 

[balconio 606]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:55 PM, tunahead72 said:

@balconio I noticed the wheels in your Amazon link have a centered hub, I wonder if that was part of your problem.  A longer shoulder bolt might do the trick.  Shepherd also has a couple of 7" wheels with offset hubs that might have more clearance from the height adjuster, but you might still have to use different bolts.

 

As far as your deck height, when your deck is up in the transport position, do the rubber bumpers on the deck touch the bottom of the tractor footrests like they're supposed to?

 

The bumpers are all crushed, maybe I need new ones. With the deck in the lifted position I can pull the lift lever back a little more and it'll come up another half inch or so. I do that when I enter the garage just to give the deck a little more clearance on the concrete.

 

I did have a revelation that resulted in a much better cut though... The previous owner had the throttle stop screw out way too much, so I was never cutting at the right rpm. Now that I've backed it down the engine revs properly and the blades spin much faster and my ground speed is faster in 2nd gear. It no longer leaves uncut strips and I have brand new blades on order for good measure.

 

I still wish it cut a little higher, but I'm happy with how it's cutting now. It sucks a lot more gas running at full speed now. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by balconio

[tunahead72 2,403]

Thanks for the update!  You must have read my mind, I was just looking at this thread again this morning. 

 

Make sure your engine isn't running TOO fast.  Have you measured your top speed with a tach and compared it to the maximum recommended in the manual?

 

--------

 

And now for reference, for anybody who's thinking about larger wheels on these decks...

 

I've been scratching my head about larger wheels for quite a while, and finally narrowed my search down to 7" steel wheels with offset hubs and ball bearings.  I definitely over-analyzed this thing, @RandyLittrell will appreciate this.

 

I tried to order the last two Shepherd 3339 wheels from Amazon last night.  Their estimated delivery date was this coming Thursday, but when I added them to my cart, that mysteriously changed to some time in August or September.  If I tried to order just one, the original delivery date was still okay, but one wheel won't do me any good.  This wheel is a 7"x1-1/2" steel wheel with ball bearings, ribbed tread and offset hub, and it's even red, so from a distance it looks a lot like the original Wheel Horse wheels.  I haven't seen any other sources for this wheel, so...

 

Today I ordered my second choice, the Martin 715-OF-R, from Global Industrial.  It's very similar to the Shepherd 3339, except that it's white.

 

Both these wheels are a little pricey.  I really wanted the ribbed tread for some reason, but there's lots of slightly less expensive similar wheels out there with diamond tread.  Here's my short list:

Stens 185-017

McMaster 2331T13

Martin 715-OF

Oregon 72-430

 

Just a final note...  All of these offset wheels have hubs that are 1-3/8" long, so you'll either have to replace your shoulder bolts or add washers to your existing bolts.  I need to replace mine anyway.