312-8 Safety Switch Question

[Bow_Extreme 544]

I'm currently working through a 312-8 I acquired and noticed that the entire wire harness and all switches were removed from the tractor and replaced with a few individual wires.  Tractor runs and works great.  I'm currently acquiring a new/used harness for it and I'm wondering how many switches this should have.  

 

1.)  PTO Switch

2.)  Neutral Safety Switch

3.)  Brake Switch?

4.)  Seat Switch

 

I want to make sure I'm correct on this.  I will post a wanted ad shortly, for the switches needed.

 

Thanks

 

[tunahead72 2,445]

You should probably look at the correct parts list and wiring diagram for your tractor to be 100% certain.  You may need two identical PTO switches.  I assume by "neutral safety switch" you mean the clutch switch?  And I'm not sure what a brake switch would be.

 

[johnnymag3 2,527]

Agree with Tuna.....look at the many diagrams here, they are invaluable.

      I just did my entire 310-8 over, and it was a breeze with the help of the folks here. There will be a clutch switch, but not one on the brake. Good luck !!!

 

John

[Bow_Extreme 544]

1 hour ago, tunahead72 said:

You should probably look at the correct parts list and wiring diagram for your tractor to be 100% certain.  You may need two identical PTO switches.  I assume by "neutral safety switch" you mean the clutch switch?  And I'm not sure what a brake switch would be.

 

 

If I had an ID tag on this tractor, I would.  I've already studied the diagrams available on this site and they are all very different.  This motor in this tractor is a 16hp Kohler Magnum.  I believe the last motor may have been the original 12 but not a magnum.  The original harness is gone.  someone wired it in a very primitive and simple manner with spade connectors and removed all of the switches on the tractor.  They also removed the light indicator strip.  I'm just trying to restore it to some decent condition with actual pigtail connectors in place of the current spade terminals.  However, it does run very well.  

 

 

[Bow_Extreme 544]

1 hour ago, johnnymag3 said:

Agree with Tuna.....look at the many diagrams here, they are invaluable.

      I just did my entire 310-8 over, and it was a breeze with the help of the folks here. There will be a clutch switch, but not one on the brake. Good luck !!!

 

John

 

The only reason I brought up the brake was it has dual pedals on it.  I wasnt sure if you had to have both depressed to start the tractor.  The wiring diagrams I looked at did not relate to a brake so I apologize.  
Nice tractor!!

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,113]

Check the ignition switch to see how it handles the magneto ignition the M-Series uses. There should be an M terminal. It is possible to use one for battery ignition with an I (eye) terminal but this one uses a kill relay to control the magneto ignition.

Go with a 312-8 system that uses the ignition switch you have. That would be 1987 and newer if the M terminal is on the switch.

 

The few models that used a brake switch it just lite up an idiot light to let the operator know the parking brake was on.

 

Garry

[Bow_Extreme 544]

53 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Check the ignition switch to see how it handles the magneto ignition the M-Series uses. There should be an M terminal. It is possible to use one for battery ignition with an I (eye) terminal but this one uses a kill relay to control the magneto ignition.

Go with a 312-8 system that uses the ignition switch you have. That would be 1987 and newer if the M terminal is on the switch.

 

The few models that used a brake switch it just lite up an idiot light to let the operator know the parking brake was on.

 

Garry

That is super helpful!!  Thank You!!

[953 nut 56,026]

4 hours ago, Bow_Extreme said:

If I had an ID tag on this tractor, I would.  I've already studied the diagrams available on this site and they are all very different.

You will be ahead of the game if you know the year of the tractor the wiring harness came from. The switches need to be from (or like the ones from) the year of the donor. The year of your tractor is immaterial.

When you know the donor's year post it on here and someone will probably be willing to send you what you need from their scrap pile valuable parts inventory.

[Bow_Extreme 544]

23 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

You will be ahead of the game if you know the year of the tractor the wiring harness came from. The switches need to be from (or like the ones from) the year of the donor. The year of your tractor is immaterial.

When you know the donor's year post it on here and someone will probably be willing to send you what you need from their scrap pile valuable parts inventory.

I will post as soon as I know. Thank you very much!I will post as soon as I know. Thank you very much!

[Bow_Extreme 544]

4 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Check the ignition switch to see how it handles the magneto ignition the M-Series uses. There should be an M terminal. It is possible to use one for battery ignition with an I (eye) terminal but this one uses a kill relay to control the magneto ignition.

Go with a 312-8 system that uses the ignition switch you have. That would be 1987 and newer if the M terminal is on the switch.

 

The few models that used a brake switch it just lite up an idiot light to let the operator know the parking brake was on.

 

Garry

 

Here is the scoop:

 

6 terminal ignition switch.  
 

#3 - Ground (Green Wire)

A - nothing

M - Motor White wire (magneto?)

B - Battery, direct (Brown w/yellow stripe)

R - Motor Purple wire

S - Solenoid wire (yellow wire)

 

Wire Harness available to purchase:  1996. (assuming I should buy?)

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Bow_Extreme

[953 nut 56,026]

Ask the seller if the safety switches and relays come with the harness. That could save a lot of cost and aggravation.

[Bow_Extreme 544]

43 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Ask the seller if the safety switches and relays come with the harness. That could save a lot of cost and aggravation.

There are no safety switches with it.  He does have the PTO switch, new, for purchase.  I will review the diagrams again for switches.

[Bow_Extreme 544]

Here's the 1996 Wiring Schematic:

[Bow_Extreme 544]

It looks like there are several switches in the 1996 Wiring Circuit. 

 

1.)  Seat Switch - No longer available (Probably just bypass for now unless someone has one available)

2.)  Dual PTO Switches (Mount to bracket at PTO side, #20 on the diagram)

3.)  Neautral Safety Switch(Pedal Down)  (Assuming #8 on the diagram is the Pedal Down Switch?)

 

Probably need to purchase an updated solenoid for this that has the additional terminals.

Also wondering if my motor actually has an oil level switch on it.  I don't remember seeing one.

 

Or am I better off not purchasing an updated harness and leave things the way they are.  The motor runs well and the tractor runs out well.  I dont want to risk someone potentially purchasing without some safeties in place.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Bow_Extreme

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,113]

I would just use what you have. It's not broken. You can improve what is there one wire at a time.

Add the safety circuits one at a time.

Use a diagram like the 310-8 that had no idiot lights except the low oil light and if no switch forget it. Replacement low oil switches are no longer available. If you ever have to remove one there are special instructions on how to remove it without damage. We have them in our service bulletins.

 

Pto switches and connector. Requires 2 of them and their connectors. These require Packard 56 female terminals. Make sure the original switches are still not there.

Seat switch

This one is about $20 cheaper then a later version

 

Use this ignition switch if you can't use yours. At least add the 5-wire connector.

See if the clutch pedal switch is still there. It mounts in the right side panel and you should see it looking down past the shifters.

 

Here is a 310-8 diagram. Back to basics

The 1996 wiring is much more complicated.

The low oil switch prevents the starter from working if the oil is low. They added a seat relay so if the oil goes low with operator in the seat the ignition shuts off.

 

Garry

[953 nut 56,026]

10 hours ago, Bow_Extreme said:

am I better off not purchasing an updated harness and leave things the way they are.

       The later models had so many relays and other opportunities for failure you would be much better off upgrade what you have. The seat switch used on the newer units is inserted into the foam padding and probably wouldn't fit your seat.

I am in the process of parting out a '86  and will take a look at the wiring to see what remains (some has been cut out) If it has the PTO switch, seat switch and the clutch switch I will let you know. There are enough helpful people on here that will provide guidance on adapting things to your wiring harness. The alterations to the existing wiring will not be too hard to do.

Take a look at the right side of the tunnel where your shift lever is ( need to remove the belt guard to see it. There should be a small switch arm or ball sticking through there that will be pushed in when the clutch arm swings forward, that is the "pedal down" or clutch switch, If it is there that is good because I don't think I have that one.

[biged77 113]

I agree on going simple and use the 310-8 diagram with existing wiring.  Looks like you don't have an oil level relay so just wire straight from the clutch neutral switch to the solenoid.  Just remember to check oil level every time before starting.  Like Garry said the oil level switch is problematic anyway and you really don't need it.  

 

Ed

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,113]

Somewhere I made the comment the low oil switch controlled the ignition as well as the starter. That is not true.

The only thing common between the two is the relays share a ground which is obvious after adding color to the diagram.

Still don't know why the seat relay was added unless they were trying to standardize the battery and magneto wiring harnesses.

 

Garry

[Bow_Extreme 544]

I really appreciate everyone’s input on this subject.  This is incredibly helpful!!!  Thank You So Much!!

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bow_Extreme

[953 nut 56,026]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:03 PM, 953 nut said:

I am in the process of parting out a '86  and will take a look at the wiring to see what remains (some has been cut out) If it has the PTO switch, seat switch and the clutch switch I will let you know.

PM sent.

[953 nut 56,026]

Matt, PTO and Seat switches are on the way.

The seat switch is there to shut down the engine if the half of the PTO Switch that connects to it is in the PTO ON position and no one is in the seat, if your PTO is OFF the seat switch will do nothing. The dark blue wire form the PTO switch will join the wire going to your magneto.

The other half of the PTO Switch will prevent the starter from operating if the PTO is ON, if your PTO is OFF the switch will do nothing. If you have a clutch switch the purple wire from this half of the PTO switch will go to the clutch switch, if you don't have a clutch switch it will go directly to the small terminal on the Solenoid. You don't have an engine low oil switch so the low oil relay is not going to be used.

The drawing below should be helpful. Both switches have wires that would go to the "idiot lights" for Seat and PTO (not shown on the 310 drawing) but you don't need them, just cut them off.

The PTO Switch is located next to the battery.

The seat switch is located in the fender pan.

 

[Bow_Extreme 544]

16 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Matt, PTO and Seat switches are on the way.

The seat switch is there to shut down the engine if the half of the PTO Switch that connects to it is in the PTO ON position and no one is in the seat, if your PTO is OFF the seat switch will do nothing. The dark blue wire form the PTO switch will join the wire going to your magneto.

The other half of the PTO Switch will prevent the starter from operating if the PTO is ON, if your PTO is OFF the switch will do nothing. If you have a clutch switch the purple wire from this half of the PTO switch will go to the clutch switch, if you don't have a clutch switch it will go directly to the small terminal on the Solenoid. You don't have an engine low oil switch so the low oil relay is not going to be used.

The drawing below should be helpful. Both switches have wires that would go to the "idiot lights" for Seat and PTO (not shown on the 310 drawing) but you don't need them, just cut them off.

The PTO Switch is located next to the battery.

The seat switch is located in the fender pan.

 

Really appreciate the help!!  Thank You So Much!!!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,113]

These drawing were published in 1986 and the 420-LSE had magneto ignition so that is the illustration to use. The green wire at the seat switch went to the idiot lights so forget that one.

 

These are also available in pdf format if you want too print them.

 

Garry

[mike avad 41]

Hope am able to add this to this page? I have a 1988  252-H  wheel horse and I have 2 safety switch one on the seat and one one the brake and my ignition switch has a M on it no.103991 and 111215 switch has 6 terminal with 3 key postitions. wires all good but no power to the switch's also have a switch for the PTO

[953 nut 56,026]

11 hours ago, mike avad said:

Hope am able to add this to this page? I have a 1988  252-H  wheel horse and I have 2 safety switch one on the seat and one one the brake and my ignition switch has a M on it no.103991 and 111215 switch has 6 terminal with 3 key postitions. wires all good but no power to the switch's also have a switch for the PTO

        You would be better off starting your own thread since any wiring information for your 252-H would confuse the issue regarding a 312 and might cause problems for a fellow 312 owner later on.

Click on this link then click Start a new topic.  https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/65-wheel-horse-electrical/

Edited January 28, 2023 by 953 nut
fat finger