310-8 Bucket Tractor

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Work in progress, should be done by late spring.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

[ebinmaine 67,321]

Looks GREAT so far!

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Think I’m going to buy this hitch so I can use a gravity bucket weight. My tires are not loaded so I’ll definitely need some weight back there. I’ve read that beet juice is used in the tires, not chloride? Anyone know anything about that?

Edited April 19, 2020 by KrazeyOlDave

[ebinmaine 67,321]

5 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

beat juice is used in the tires, not chloride

I have that and highly recommend it.

I have a product called Rimguard in all 4 of the tires on Cinnamon Horse.

 

Beet juice uses sugar to add the weight and keep from freezing in a similar manner to the salt in calcium chloride but doesn't corrode metal.

 

Be sure to shop around when pricing Rimguard.

Call the distributor to get some shop names.

 

Prices around here vary widely.

 

 

[cschannuth 3,816]

16 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

Think I’m going to buy this hitch so I can use a gravity bucket weight. My tires are not loaded so I’ll definitely need some weight back there. I’ve read that beet juice is used in the tires, not chloride? Anyone know anything about that?

I use methylene glycol antifreeze in tires without tubes and I’ve never had an issue because it actually lubricates and doesn’t rust the rims.  There’s probably other products out there that are heavier but this is really inexpensive and works well.

[953 nut 55,119]

Tell us a little bit about the sub-frame that the loader is attached to. There should be substantial mounting points attaching the sub-frame to the rear axle and front axle pivot point, didn't see them in the photos. Without these supports you will twist the frame of your tractor.The rear portion of the sub-frame could also be used to support a weight box. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

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[Pullstart 62,811]

2 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

Think I’m going to buy this hitch so I can use a gravity bucket weight. My tires are not loaded so I’ll definitely need some weight back there. I’ve read that beet juice is used in the tires, not chloride? Anyone know anything about that?

 

That is a great hitch, but like Richard said, you’ll need more loader subframe so you might as well include a hitch back there while you’re at it!  

 

I recently picked up an ARK 500 Loader and the rear subframe had provisions for set screws to pinch the subframe solid to the rear end.  With the center pin of the axle up front being the only solid support, the entire loader swayed back and forth many inches, twisting the frame in either direction.  With new 1/2” bolts as set screws, the entire rig became so much mire rigid.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

 

That is a great hitch, but like Richard said, you’ll need more loader subframe so you might as well include a hitch back there while you’re at it!  

 

I recently picked up an ARK 500 Loader and the rear subframe had provisions for set screws to pinch the subframe solid to the rear end.  With the center pin of the axle up front being the only solid support, the entire loader swayed back and forth many inches, twisting the frame in either direction.  With new 1/2” bolts as set screws, the entire rig became so much mire rigid.

 

Im not completely understanding what you did to the front end to make it rigid? 

I have 2” square, 1/4 wall tubing that I’m using to tie my center mount, to the rear end. That is what y’all are referring too?

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Don't forget to become a supporter... 

It'll help keep the site going as well allow you to post unlimited pics.

 

Just grabbed a 2 year script for the site, thank you.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Welcome to 

and thanks to become a supporter.

 

there shall be 2 added stiffners, to not prevent to bend the Frame and spread the forces to larger Areas like a Parallelogram.

So you have a Wider area for the working forces.

 

 

To illustrate that a bit better i use few Pictures from my Build.

i did this for another Project, but the illustration clears what is meant.

 

 

 

this Picture from bottom View illustrates the Rear axle linkage and even the Front linkage.

The front linkage shall be connected to the Main Arms, to reduce the torque they come from the liftarms to the 

Main pillars.

 

 

The Front linkage itself between front support and Main pillars is here not visible.

The whole load is so on your Frontaxle, what must be reduced with a Counterweight behind the rear axle

to balance the whole system and remove the Weight from your Frontaxle, otherwise you can crack it.

 

Your Center of the complete Weight is also allway‘s the rearaxle, because the balance must be doint in relation on that.

 

If you measure the lenght between the bucket to Rearaxle this is you first Lever,

the lenght to the Counterweight in rear is your second lever.

With this equation you can simply calculate how much load in the Bucket will load on your Frontaxle.

 

at your design i estimate the load in the Bucket will additionally load your Frontaxle with about 5 - 7 times the load in the bucket.

plus the load of the FEL itself.

 

That must be released by a Counterweight, otherwise a crack of the frontaxle is just a question of time, 

even steering becomes more than a heavy Job.

 

 

Also the torque of your Main pillars goes fully on your Tractor‘s Frame.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Ok cool, so yes, I’m going in the right direction I think. I had planned to use 2 and the 2” square tube, to tie into the gravity bucket. The front support strut arms are not seen in my photos yet, but they are going on it. My center main belly mount is bolted to the main frame. I do appreciate the feedback as well as your illustrations. 

 

So to confirm, does it sound like I’m going in the right direction as suggested?

[ebinmaine 67,321]

1 hour ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

grabbed a 2 year script for the site,

Yer name looks great in red Dave!!

[roadapples 6,983]

I would mount the center pillars on the sub frame, not the tractor frame. Everyone I've ever seen is made this way. Must be a good reason....

[wallfish 16,987]

Nice work!

You can attach the main beam directly to the frame rails. You could also use the mid Tach A Matic too by adding on a 5/8 rod like the factory Ark loader sub frame does. The mid tach a matic just bolts to directly to the frame too.

Something to consider is by welding it all together as you build it on the tractor, that may prevent it from ever being removed easily. Typically the upright posts would be bolted to the main support of sub-frame.

 

[pfrederi 17,685]

One more suggestion .  You seem to have the 310s original 6" wheels and spindles.  I would look for 8 " wheel spindles.  The are less likely to bend. Note the difference in length unsupported (Blue 6"  yellow 8").  If you could source a pair of the reinforced spindles (in the back) that would be better.  You are going to be putting a lot of weight on the front wheels and if you are driving over any roughness at all, a lot of stress. 

 

 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

👍

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by KrazeyOlDave

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

One more suggestion .  You seem to have the 310s original 6" wheels and spindles.  I would look for 8 " wheel spindles.  The are less likely to bend. Note the difference in length unsupported (Blue 6"  yellow 8").  If you could source a pair of the reinforced spindles (in the back) that would be better.  You are going to be putting a lot of weight on the front wheels and if you are driving over any roughness at all, a lot of stress. 

 

 

 

This is a very good idea. I checked EBay, nothing there. Now I’m considering just welding in a small piece to make mine stronger.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Btw nice work you did so far.

 

I don‘t know how much the spindles itself can carry or ever beeing calculated for, 

but on my first selfmade FEL on a Verticalengine Horse i used the last Winter very hard. Didn‘t count the Shovels of heavy wet snow i moved with it.

It was a real mass of that heavy Wet Snow i moved with.

if i calculated the Load with Water, i‘m on 140Kilos in the Bucket, what be 370 Kilos load on the Frontaxle at all.

My Counterweight was changing several times to a bigger Truck battery with about 75kilos, what is way way to light for the needs.

In my Horse are the shorter 6“ Spindles not reinforced they don‘t bend, but here the reinforcement is definitely recommendet.

I found here locally a manufacturer for spare rim‘s the be offered to carry 300Kilos each that be about 600lbs up to 6 Km/h.

 

i calculated mine with 3/4 of that load normally as maximum without any reinforcement.

It was at all a success for me, because it works even harder than i ever expected,

but to be honest i found also few mistakes i learned for the next build.

 

1. because of the leightweight of the Verticals i can not attach enough counterweight without the Rearaxle

means if you lift a heavier bucket or load, the Front gets quick very instable and a rollover can easily happen.

 

2. my Rims worn quickly, even if i have them continouse Serviced (greased),

before i started with the FEL Project the had nearly no play, after one year excessive use, they Worn to 2mm play in diagonal.

That means i need other Rims or need bushings to rework them.

That give you maybe an idea of the load, the Axles must carry without enough Counterweight.

[cschannuth 3,816]

One thing I noticed is your bucket is fairly small. I think that’s a good idea on that size tractor. It should be really handy and maneuverable. If you’ve never had one before you’ll be amazed at how useful they are and how much work you can actually accomplish.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

10 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

One thing I noticed is your bucket is fairly small. I think that’s a good idea on that size tractor. It should be really handy and maneuverable. If you’ve never had one before you’ll be amazed at how useful they are and how much work you can actually accomplish.

 

Yes Sir, I made 2 cardboard buckets, the second one worked. It’ll only hold about 200 lbs of dirt at best. So I’m not too awfully worried about the front BUT, it cannot hurt to make them stronger.