416-H deck spindle pulley removal

[tkos115 1]

I'm currently attempting to replace the bearings on the deck of my wheel horse 416-H, the deck number is 1542RC01. I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the spindle pulley off the shaft up top. I have tried using a pulley puller which starts to bend the pulley so I stopped. I have also used a torch to heat it up and use a puller with no luck either. It has also been soaking in PB blaster for days too. I attempted to use a brass hammer and a rubber hammer to try and hit the shaft from to top down and it hasn't moved even a tiny bit. Is there some other way to do this that works well? If not how would I go about removing and cutting everything out to replace it with a brand new spindle and pulley assembly? 

 

This has been driving me crazy all week, does anyone have any ideas?

And yes I have taken the grease fittings out.

 

Thanks!

[JoeM 7,871]

Well....those are about the toughest ones when they get stuck. If the heat didn't bring it the PB will only make you fill better. There is two different ways I have got those off.

 

One way. I take those small wedges, the ones you use on windows and tap them in all around the perimeter. Try to make them as even as you can and support the pulley as much as you can. This puts tension on the pulley and raises up the play. Then I put the nut back on the shaft flush with the top and the grease zerk removed. Using a hammer tap tap tap tap tap the shaft. keep checking the wedges to keep them snug. Be patient! An air chisel on the top of the shaft protected by plate works too.  Some heat will help also. 

 

The second way is to drill two holes close to the center hub, in the flat area, opposite sides of the hub, 180 degrees. drill and tap for 5/16 bolts and use a puller. heat too You can put tension on the puller and bump the puller screw on the end to give it a jolt / shock.

 

And throw the heat to her, looking at your pics, the paint is not even burned. Nothing to hurt you are changing the bearings anyway.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by TractorJunkie

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

                                                                               

[peter lena 8,583]

tkos115 , welcome to the sight , you have sent the perfect picture ,of the best prying advantage point ! slide a thin pry bar on top of the deck to spindle  bolt , under pulley ,slide it in to the center of the pulley , do that on two opposite sides , so that when you push down on them , you will have the mechanical advantage to evenly pull up on the strongest part of the pulley . obviously  penetrating oil around all points . done this a number of times , and the pulleys always come off without any damage , just a smooth release. i would put them back using never seize on that slide area,  pete  

[tkos115 1]

Thanks for the replies everyone. These pics were taken before putting heat to it. There isn't any paint left on it now, hah. I will give these suggestions a try tomorrow and report back. I'm hoping it will come lose, I haven't had such a problem like this with a pulley before. Also yes, the main goal is to replace the bearings. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a complete spindle job.. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by tkos115

[tkos115 1]

I had also heard that by putting a wrench on the nut underneath by the blade, and then using a large pipe wrench with a pipe on it to grab the hub of the pulley to break it lose works too. I guess the idea is that since the pulley isn't keyed, turning it while holding the shaft is another way to do it. I haven't done this but saw something about it. Has anyone ever tried this method with any luck? 

[JoeM 7,871]

5 hours ago, tkos115 said:

using a large pipe wrench with a pipe on it to grab the hub of the pulley to break it lose works too

Could work.

Putting a pipe wrench on the pulley would be tough, need a big one, I got a lot of stuff and I think the only thing I got that will span that size is a chain wrench. 

Along the same lines, I have heard by loosening the nut and running the deck can help too. 

[peter lena 8,583]

if you do get to the rebuilding stage, i recommend  LUCAS RED AND TACKY   OR LUCAS HEAVY DUTY GREASE ,  in your bearing spindle area , with a 550 drop point , your bearings will be happy and very quiet . i also use this grease on my  PTO NEEDLE BEARING , for total ease ,and smooth engagement , just my own experience, pete 

[tom2p 2,394]

2 hours ago, peter lena said:

if you do get to the rebuilding stage, i recommend  LUCAS RED AND TACKY   OR LUCAS HEAVY DUTY GREASE ,  in your bearing spindle area , with a 550 drop point , your bearings will be happy and very quiet . i also use this grease on my  PTO NEEDLE BEARING , for total ease ,and smooth engagement , just my own experience, pete 

pete - another endorsement for the Lucas red tacky grease 

 

I've used and recommended Bel Ray marine grease for years - but also had great success with Lucas red tacky grease on the Wheel Horse tractors 

 

when I purchased my first 416-H years ago (early 2000's) - the previous owner gave me a bunch of Lucas red tacky cartridges - and I've basically used it since then on the Wheel Horse tractors 

 

 

[peter lena 8,583]

thanks for the feed back tom, when i send in a reply its a tried and proven improvement change that i was looking for . then what i do is to apply it to my other horses. yes there is a definite solid running smoothness with that grease. hope you are adjusting to the virus issue, and staying safe , pete

[JoeM 7,871]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

definite solid running smoothness with that grease

How could you tell...........a spindle on a mower deck? 

There are plenty of good bearing greases out in the market that will do fine at a fraction of the cost of Lucas. 

Grease must be able to take the pressure and flow into the area of fiction. #2 bearing rated grease will work fine.

I have decks that have been converted to sealed bearing and they run fine.

About the only brand I know of that is a problem is the "LACK-OF" brand. 

[peter lena 8,583]

tractor junkie, having rebuilt a number of decks and really like detailing them , to enhance their running ease , i am always looking to improve things. first off a tube of lucas grease is 5 $  at wally world, so that's a non issue. i find the grease to keep things running in a very solid smooth form, my pto lever rod detail also makes the transfer of drive much easier. remembering how i got used and neglected tractors , making them work like they should is what i like to do. sealed  bearings are ok, but the lubricant can be improved. .the mule drive bearings which are sealed , also like lucas grease . we can go back and forth , but i would rather have you win with your way of doing things , and i will do mine . pete 

[JoeM 7,871]

Pete just trying to help the person get the deck fixed. They did not ask how to improve it.

I'm not endorsing any products or brands….. just being a good supporter of Red Square.

[tom2p 2,394]

6 hours ago, TractorJunkie said:

How could you tell...........a spindle on a mower deck? 

There are plenty of good bearing greases out in the market that will do fine at a fraction of the cost of Lucas. 

Grease must be able to take the pressure and flow into the area of fiction. #2 bearing rated grease will work fine.

I have decks that have been converted to sealed bearing and they run fine.

About the only brand I know of that is a problem is the "LACK-OF" brand. 

agree - "LACK-OF" can be a problem - the number one problem 

 

but there is one other issue to be aware of with grease :  compatibility 

 

many are concerned about motor oil compatibility - especially petroleum and synthetic (where there are few if any issues) - but there can be compatibility issues with grease ;  certain types of grease do not mix or work well together and should be avoided because it can result in lack of lubrication and bearing failure 

 

( example :  lithium and moly grease )

 

consult the manufacturers for compatibility 

 

also provided a link to a grease compatibility chart : 

 

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility

 

.

Edited April 16, 2020 by tom2p

[tkos115 1]

So to let everyone know how I made out. The first thing I tried were two prybars and heat with no luck, then I drilled and tapped the pulleys and used some heat and I still couldn't get it to move.. It ended up pulling the bolts through the pulley. The last thing I tried was using a pipe wrench to turn it on the shaft after heating it. It worked for the first one but took alot of turning it back and forth and it finally came off. The second one I used the same method but it ended up twisting the shaft and it snapped.. I was able to press the broken shaft out if the pulley with a bearing press and heat. So I ended up ordering a new shaft but atleast it came apart finally...

[tkos115 1]

This was a weird thing to see.. this shaft was taking grease but it seems like the lower bearing didn't get any. The lower section was full of dead grass, (lower blade side). You can see some of it in the picture, however there was a lot more. My guess is grass somehow started working it's way into the spindle assembly,  and clogged up the lower bearing and prevented grease from getting to that bearing. It was packed full of grass and more came out when that bearing was removed. 

[JoeM 7,871]

7 hours ago, tom2p said:

( example :  lithium and moly grease )

Tom that is excellent advise. Most don't know that mixing those two will turn to a wax type consistency. And loose their lubricating ability. 

 

For some, moly based greases are found mostly in heavy industrial grade application. Commonly labeled as "extreme". These work well in sleeve and pin applications. 

Typical wheel bearing / chassis greases, offered off the shelf, are lithium based greases. Provides the proper lubrication to rolling elements. 

Moly based grease tend to be more expense, just cause you spending more you might not be helping yourself. Read the label. 

 

@tkos115 I am glad you got it apart, I've destroyed those pulleys and spindles also. 

 

Bottom seal looks missing? I know I have found a lot of stuff wrapped around these. Grass, twine, fishing line, weed wacker string etc. Have to dig that out when servicing the blades. 

 

As far as the grease not getting to the bottom bearing, good catch and is a real problem. I know when I stacked up a spindle / shaft and bearing without the housing, and applied grease. (About 5 pumps). I did not even get close to filling in the cavity and getting grease to the bearings. It takes 40 or so shots to fill that cavity completely. 

When I replace these, I hand pack the bearings and housing during assembly. Then a couple two three shots twice a year keeps them topped off. 

 

I also have some running with sealed bearings. It is too soon to tell on these because it has only been two seasons of cutting. I am a fan of sealed bearings as a whole. I suppose this goes back to my mining background where persons have used contaminated grease or (as Tom noted) the wrong grease, causing failure.

 

Note: not many get this kind of warm welcome to Red Square, as you can see we are passionate about our machines! 

 

Hope you got everything you needed to make the repairs, if there is something you need send a PM, I have stuff, I might have what you need and will I help you....

 

 

 

[tkos115 1]

I appreciate the help from everyone, and there's nothing wrong with being passionate about your hobbies and such. I suppose I'm still a bit "young" in a sense because im 28 but I have developed certain likings to products that I wont change my mind on. I worked in aftermarket auto parts sales for about 10 years and there's a lot of people who are very set in there ways or only trust certain products or brands. Especially when it comes to engine oils or, "miracles in a bottle" products. Fortunately I work at a car dealership now, so really only one brand to deal with for most stuff. I say if it works for you and you trust it then stick with it. 

 

 

I also took a pic of the spindle when I knocked the bearings out of it. This is the one that had all the grass in it. What looks like old grease is about 90% grass. There was a lot of it all caked into the spindle. And yeah, the bottom seal was non existent on that bearing. The bearings I put in are sealed so we will see how they do. 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by tkos115

[tom2p 2,394]

16 hours ago, TractorJunkie said:

Tom that is excellent advise. Most don't know that mixing those two will turn to a wax type consistency. And loose their lubricating ability. 

 

For some, moly based greases are found mostly in heavy industrial grade application. Commonly labeled as "extreme". These work well in sleeve and pin applications. 

Typical wheel bearing / chassis greases, offered off the shelf, are lithium based greases. Provides the proper lubrication to rolling elements. 

Moly based grease tend to be more expense, just cause you spending more you might not be helping yourself. Read the label. 

 

@tkos115 I am glad you got it apart, I've destroyed those pulleys and spindles also. 

 

Bottom seal looks missing? I know I have found a lot of stuff wrapped around these. Grass, twine, fishing line, weed wacker string etc. Have to dig that out when servicing the blades. 

 

As far as the grease not getting to the bottom bearing, good catch and is a real problem. I know when I stacked up a spindle / shaft and bearing without the housing, and applied grease. (About 5 pumps). I did not even get close to filling in the cavity and getting grease to the bearings. It takes 40 or so shots to fill that cavity completely. 

When I replace these, I hand pack the bearings and housing during assembly. Then a couple two three shots twice a year keeps them topped off. 

 

I also have some running with sealed bearings. It is too soon to tell on these because it has only been two seasons of cutting. I am a fan of sealed bearings as a whole. I suppose this goes back to my mining background where persons have used contaminated grease or (as Tom noted) the wrong grease, causing failure.

 

Note: not many get this kind of warm welcome to Red Square, as you can see we are passionate about our machines! 

 

Hope you got everything you needed to make the repairs, if there is something you need send a PM, I have stuff, I might have what you need and will I help you....

 

 

 

tractor junkie - also a fan of sealed bearings 

 

on dirt bikes I would replace the factory bearings (wheel, swing arm, and suspension linkage) with top quality sealed bearings and then maintenance was greatly reduced (if not eliminated)

 

good / top quality bearing should provide great service - possibly for lifetime of a mower deck ... ? ...

 

[tom2p 2,394]

57 minutes ago, tkos115 said:

I appreciate the help from everyone, and there's nothing wrong with being passionate about your hobbies and such. I suppose I'm still a bit "young" in a sense because im 28 but I have developed certain likings to products that I wont change my mind on. I worked in aftermarket auto parts sales for about 10 years and there's a lot of people who are very set in there ways or only trust certain products or brands. Especially when it comes to engine oils or, "miracles in a bottle" products. Fortunately I work at a car dealership now, so really only one brand to deal with for most stuff. I say if it works for you and you trust it then stick with it. 

 

 

I also took a pic of the spindle when I knocked the bearings out of it. This is the one that had all the grass in it. What looks like old grease is about 90% grass. There was a lot of it all caked into the spindle. And yeah, the bottom seal was non existent on that bearing. The bearings I put in are sealed so we will see how they do. 

 

I think the sealed bearings should provide good service - nice job  !

 

[tom2p 2,394]

on the subject of grease and grease compatibility - possibly the most noteworthy story involving grease / grease compatibility occurred in 2000
 

Alaska Airlines flight 261 - improper maintenance, lubrication / incompatible grease led to catastrophic loss of control and resulting crash that killed 88 people 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

 

https://billingsgazette.com/news/world/investigators-focus-on-jackscrew-grease-in-alaska-airlines-crash/article_11965f1b-173a-566f-9f2c-75dd19b057b8.html
 

 

[adsm08 2,027]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:06 AM, TractorJunkie said:

Could work.

Putting a pipe wrench on the pulley would be tough, need a big one, I got a lot of stuff and I think the only thing I got that will span that size is a chain wrench. 

Along the same lines, I have heard by loosening the nut and running the deck can help too. 

 

Snappy PWZ3 pipe pliers.  Adjustable up to 21.5 inches.

 

https://shop.snapon.com/product/Pliers-Wrenches/21-1-2"-Plier-Wrench/PWZ3

[JoeM 7,871]

7 hours ago, tkos115 said:

What looks like old grease is about 90% grass

That is about worse one I've seen for grass contamination. I've taken apart about a dozen decks. My kids have tractors, friends and of course I have a few. That starving bottom bearing is consistent though.

 

Sealed bearings, yes. I'm working on a 98 xi now and I look at the electric PTO clutch, spins hard, decent belt load, sealed bearings still spinning. `1500 hrs. I did remove the clutch and the bearings were I would say not rough but sticky-ish.  Looked at new bearings, these are some kind of special size. Metric OD and Imperial ID, $50+. New Aftermarket clutch, $130. So being just a back up machine i figured I would try to service. Popped the seals, flushed out the old gunk, (I use kero in a spray bottle), added new grease, pushed seals back in, (over filled with grease first try seal didn't want to go back in),  they fill pretty good. I am waiting for other parts, will see, going to give a try in a week or so I hope. 

 

One other example. Belt tension-er on a automobile. They go well over 100K miles on sealed bearings. Not a mower deck but that is a lot of RPMS! 

 

And I cut my teeth on a grease gun, so the proof is there.

 

I am now in the habit of taking the tension belt off when I service the blades and giving them a spin and feel.