Tilling with a hydro

[ZXT 2,401]

Hey guys. Put the tiller on my C-160 for the first time since I got it  back in June. Topped the gear box oil off and went to town. 

 

The tiller itself works excellent (Other than it liked to throw the belt because WH gave next to no belt tension adjustment). Controlling the tractor speed is another story. You have to go extremely slow while tilling, which is next to impossible, because the transmission wants to hunt between forward and reverse when going that slow. I made a pass and got so irritated with it that I quit for the evening. I figured the nylon slide was worn out, so I put the new one on it that i had on the shelf and while It's slightly better, the handle is now nearly too tight to move and you certainly can't move it smoothly. It's incredibly jerky between forward and reverse.. as it was before.  

 

Is there some adjustment I can do or do I just have to live with it? I've noticed the issue with the tractor even when just driving around. My C-120 does not behave the same way. If I can't get it figured out, I might have to put the tiller on the C-120, which I don't want to do since it has a manual lift. 

 

Any advice or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks!

Edited March 25, 2020 by ZXT

[Stepney 2,325]

There is a neutral adjustment, but that's for stopping. There are a pair of nuts and a friction cone on the actual control lever, about center of the console. 
I've had many hydros and never experienced that sort of problem. A glance over of the manual ought to explain everything.
The two nuts on the center console, under the plastic cover, set the preload on the lever. If you didnt touch them, and only after changing the nylon cam the controls are too still, perhaps you have something mis-aligned?

[ZXT 2,401]

2 minutes ago, Stepney said:

There is a neutral adjustment, but that's for stopping. There are a pair of nuts and a friction cone on the actual control lever, about center of the console. 
I've had many hydros and never experienced that sort of problem. A glance over of the manual ought to explain everything.
The two nuts on the center console, under the plastic cover, set the preload on the lever. If you didnt touch them, and only after changing the nylon cam the controls are too still, perhaps you have something mis-aligned?

I know the neutral adjustment is slightly off, and adjusting it properly might help some, but I don't feel that's the entire issue. It certainly could be, though. The return spring for the pedal was missing and I installed another this evening, which is when I realized that pressing the pedal all the way down reverses the tractor slowly. 

 

I've looked over the manual and didn't see anything that gave any insight. I believe the preload on the lever is correct. It stays put when you put it in place. I didn't touch them, or lubricate them (which is a big no-no), so I think that part is fine. The nylon cam is in its tracks, so I'm not sure what could be misaligned. I think that the replacement nylon is slightly thicker than the original so it's dragging on the retainers. 

 

Best way I can describe it is that going from forward to reverse is too sudden - there's not really a good way to ease into it. I've heard about acceleration springs in the past but I'm not sure if that would cause such an issue but I'll have to look into that.

 

Thanks for your help!

[daveoman1966 3,762]

I've used a tiller on my C-160 auto, but the C-160 with an 8-speed trans is better suited to maintain a constant slow speed.  With the c-160 AUTO, there is often a speed control issue involving the BROKEN TAB on FRICTION SHAFT on the outside of the hoodstand.  This shaft MUST be lockled down by this bolt, otherwise, the control mechanism will be free to FLOAT back and forth.  So, check this out.  If the weld is broken, it can be weld-repaired in place, without removing it from the hoodstand.   

[Cvans 1,009]

If it's any consolation I've tried different brands of hydro tractors with tillers and all were hard to control in firm soil. In broken soil they seem to work OK. Now that my tilling machines are standard transmissions it's just drop the tiller and forget about them until I turn around. No more tiller pushing the tractor around. 

[JoeM 7,874]

I figure your hydro runs okay when not tilling?

I have used both manual and hydro to till and one thing that helps control the machine is weight. I use 100 lbs of wheel weight and put 50 lbs on the front. Makes a big difference. 

On the hydro you need to keep the RPM up so it works correctly. 

I prefer the hydro with a hand control. There are times I am even using reverse to go super slow. 

It can be tricky, mostly the tiller will push the machine. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

I have used mine exclusively with my 520H and yes basically what @TractorJunkie posted above so this will be the first year with a manual (315-8) as far as the belt popping off my did to quite a bit till I procured a new one seems the original that came with it was to stiff (JMO) and would jump off in worked up soil. Also I had 120 lbs up front plus 150 in wheel weights.

Edited April 4, 2020 by WVHillbilly520H

[ZXT 2,401]

9 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

I've used a tiller on my C-160 auto, but the C-160 with an 8-speed trans is better suited to maintain a constant slow speed.  With the c-160 AUTO, there is often a speed control issue involving the BROKEN TAB on FRICTION SHAFT on the outside of the hoodstand.  This shaft MUST be lockled down by this bolt, otherwise, the control mechanism will be free to FLOAT back and forth.  So, check this out.  If the weld is broken, it can be weld-repaired in place, without removing it from the hoodstand.   

I actually came across one of your posts containing those pictures when researching. The tab is in tact and the bolt is tight.

9 hours ago, Cvans said:

If it's any consolation I've tried different brands of hydro tractors with tillers and all were hard to control in firm soil. In broken soil they seem to work OK. Now that my tilling machines are standard transmissions it's just drop the tiller and forget about them until I turn around. No more tiller pushing the tractor around. 

This is pretty firm soil and having bamboo roots running across doesn’t help either. I might have to put together my one geared WH and use it for this.. 

7 hours ago, TractorJunkie said:

I figure your hydro runs okay when not tilling?

I have used both manual and hydro to till and one thing that helps control the machine is weight. I use 100 lbs of wheel weight and put 50 lbs on the front. Makes a big difference. 

On the hydro you need to keep the RPM up so it works correctly. 

I prefer the hydro with a hand control. There are times I am even using reverse to go super slow. 

It can be tricky, mostly the tiller will push the machine. 

It is less noticeable when doing other work but only because I’m not having to move at snail speed. I might need weights. I’ve been keeping my eye out for a set. I’ve not thought of going in reverse.. I would think that the tractor would compact the dirt that you just tilled.

3 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I have used my exclusively with my 520H and yes basically what @TractorJunkie posted above so this will be the first year with a manual (315-8) as far as the belt popping off my did to quite a bit till I procured a new one seems the original that came with it was to stiff (JMO) and would jump off in worked up soil. Also I had 120 lbs up front plus 150 in wheel weights.

The belt I have is probably older than I am so I will get one ordered.

 

Thanks guys!

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

52 minutes ago, ZXT said:

I actually came across one of your posts containing those pictures when researching. The tab is in tact and the bolt is tight.

This is pretty firm soil and having bamboo roots running across doesn’t help either. I might have to put together my one geared WH and use it for this.. 

It is less noticeable when doing other work but only because I’m not having to move at snail speed. I might need weights. I’ve been keeping my eye out for a set. I’ve not thought of going in reverse.. I would think that the tractor would compact the dirt that you just tilled.

The belt I have is probably older than I am so I will get one ordered.

 

Thanks guys!

Belt size is 1/2" x 141" or TORO 110265 

[Skwerl58 707]

I had a belt that was supposedly original to my tiller which is 30 years old and it would kick off for no apparent reason. I found a new old stock belt, Wheel Horse1599 on EBAY for less than $30.00 with shipping and it works great. Used the tiller for two hours last week with no issues. I like the NOS stuff when buying from a reputable person or dealer.

Keep working on it and you'll figure it out.

[ZXT 2,401]

12 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Belt size is 1/2" x 141" or TORO 110265 

Excellent! I will get one ordered. Thanks!

 

11 hours ago, Skwerl58 said:

I had a belt that was supposedly original to my tiller which is 30 years old and it would kick off for no apparent reason. I found a new old stock belt, Wheel Horse1599 on EBAY for less than $30.00 with shipping and it works great. Used the tiller for two hours last week with no issues. I like the NOS stuff when buying from a reputable person or dealer.

Keep working on it and you'll figure it out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the belt with mine was the original. The tines on the tiller had 90% of their factory paint still on them. Obviously didn't get much use over the years. I'll see what I can find for a belt!

 

I worked on the neutral adjustment and made it much better. When at WOT and with the pedal depressed, it now creeps forward slowly, whereas it would go into reverse before. I tried adjusting it to where it would just stop when pressing the pedal, but it will either creep forwards or backwards. There is no inbetween. 

 

@TractorJunkie I tried tilling in reverse as you mentioned and it is so much better! Not sure why WH made the tiller run the direction it does. It is far easier to handle when it is working against itself. I would make my first pass in reverse and then go forward at the end of the row to go a bit deeper and to undo the packing that resulted. Worked well. 

Thanks guys!

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

I tried out my tiller on the 315-8 for the first time today 1st gear low range it actually worked rather well in freshly turned sod vs the hydro a few years back I'm actually going to replow and till this plot again because of the grass but other than that I was rather impressed with the gear jammer.

Edited March 29, 2020 by WVHillbilly520H

[WHX?? 49,159]

Not to bad mouth the hydros fellas but anything ground engaging rates a gear jammer. There are some exceptions on on other brands of course. 

I've tilled abit with a 520  and while with a small plot amd does an adequate job IDK if I would want to do it on a fairly large plot. Hydros have ther place and I would not do without one for blowing or pushing.  I threw  the mid mount blade on a 1077 just cause others were hurtin.... blade went back on the 867 once the outboard bearings got  replaced and much more workable. Just MHO. Wished they they had a tiller for my vintages ! 

Edited March 29, 2020 by WHX24

[ZXT 2,401]

In Feburary, I bought a 800 Special chassis (no engine or wheels). I might put the HH120 I pulled off of my C-120 on it, with a Kohler carb and a new starter, find a set of wheels and make a tilling tractor out of it. Only a 3 speed, but maybe I can make it work. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

36 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Not to bad mouth the hydros fellas but anything ground engaging rates a gear jammer. There are some exceptions on on other brands of course.

The biggest issue I have with gear jammer is the manual lift but don't dis the 520 pulling a single bottom plow till you try it a couple times and your left arm thanks you ... Didn't Caleb use "Jack Rabbit" recently during one of your plow days without issue ?

[WHX?? 49,159]

Oh yeah Billy.. thats huge..... go old skool and rig a HY on the plow tractor!... someday when we get you hooked on these '60s machines.....

 

Need I show you pics o f Dan's set up.on his '68?!?! 

Edited March 29, 2020 by WHX24

[WildmanC120 613]

I used the brake on my.c-160 to help control my speed. It helped me modulate better as holding the pedal in different positions didn't allow you to push the hydro too far forward etc. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Replow and till...

[Razorback 1,035]

54 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Replow and till...

 

 

That is a beautiful sight to me!

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:55 PM, Razorback said:

 

 

That is a beautiful sight to me!

How about this 1?

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by WVHillbilly520H

[tom2p 2,394]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

How about this 1?

 

incredible 

 

[Herder 2,354]

Wow, nice work.  And great soil too.  Can't wait to see updates on the garden!!    

[Herder 2,354]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 9:58 PM, WHX24 said:

Oh yeah Billy.. thats huge..... go old skool and rig a HY on the plow tractor!... someday when we get you hooked on these '60s machines.....

 

Need I show you pics o f Dan's set up.on his '68?!?! 

Yes, please do.  

[Razorback 1,035]

10 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

How about this 1?

 

 

Beautiful! Don't you just LOVE the smell of tilled dirt???

[Razorback 1,035]

I don't have any pics (Actually, my phone fell off of the seat while I was tilling...... now it's toast. It was in a OtterBox  Defender, but it must have fallen face up..... looks like a tine got it right in the face.... arrgh!!!), but I spent 4 hours today on my Cub 123 hydro, tilled my garden spot. Just as I was getting finished a shear pin inside the tiller sheared..... must have hit a good rock. My mistake: the belt tensioner on the tiller must have been way too tight. Normally, you adjust the tension to allow the belt to slip if the tines get in a bind.

 

Then, I got my C160 out, attached the mower deck, and mowed most of the back yard. I LOVE the way it mows... nice and clean. Hoping to get started on the garden planting very soon.