GT 14 transmission leak...near filter

[Sailman 1,291]

Just introduced myself as a newbie and had a question about a transmission leak. Engine ran great and transmission worked but leaking back tire kept me from test drive other than onto the trailer. Did notice the liquid stain under the rear when I bought it. Turns out after draining and refilling the transmission with fluid the leak is coming from a round spot (seal?) just below and to the left of the filter.

Drained almost a quart out and seems to have slowed the leak down some.

Please advise what that is...I am prepared for the bad news...:(

[pfrederi 17,663]

The circled disc is really a closed end needle bearing. Replacement will mean splitting the rear end and pressing it out and replacing.  A fairly big job.  Are you absolutely sure that is the source of the leak.  I have never seen one leak.  I would clean things up really well  run it a bit and see if the leak is higher up and it is running down. leak from the filter would be more common.  Is the bottom front edge of the transaxle wet?? That would suggest the motion control a fairly common leak.

 

 

Welcome

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,706]

Right, those cap bearings do not usually leak.  Here is what one looks like.  There is a few there...just a needle bearing with a cap on it.

 

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks for the reply. Figured someone here would have an answer!

There is no question that it is leaking from that spot. Have wiped it dry as a bone and can actually see it seeping around the "cap".

Could it be an o ring inside the cap? Possible to replace that without splitting cases, etc?

[squonk 41,020]

I would clean the area with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, scuff it with sand paper and try to seal it with JB Weld or something similar. What do you have to lose.

Edited March 22, 2020 by squonk

[pfrederi 17,663]

I would try that first.  Replacement is a BIG project.  i would however  listen for nay rattles  noises if the bearing is failing may cause the leak and then replacement is needed.   self destructing bearing release metal pieces into the hydro system ..and that is a bad thing.

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks Squonk! I was thinking the same thing but wasn't sure how well it would be received...lol.

Now I just have to figure out if this is your 12,701th intelligent post...or just whitty banter???

Wonder if the needle bearings are ok and its just a leaky cap? the JB weld would be a real possible solution.

Others thoughts?

[Sailman 1,291]

What part of the transmission do those particular needle bearings support?

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks Pfrederi. Are there any diagrams or manuals available with the schematics of this sundstrand tranny?

[pfrederi 17,663]

Yes The bearing in question support teh mushroom gear (44 and 11 teeth. Item number #25

 

Manual is here

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by pfrederi

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks for the downloads and the info. Seems a pretty risky bearing to have go bad. Could lunch the whole tranny.

I can handle some mechanics but not a tranny rebuild. Recommend anyone to tackle the job? ball park expense? Better to just find a replacement?

Open to advice here...

[953 nut 55,065]

34 minutes ago, Sailman said:

have to figure out if this is your 12,701th intelligent post...or just whitty banter???

You catch on fast!           Lots of us have asked that question of Mike over the years.             

The GT-14 is a great worker. We are here to help if you have any more questions.

[953 nut 55,065]

1 minute ago, Sailman said:

I can handle some mechanics but not a tranny rebuild.

The most difficult part of the job can be removing the wheel hubs from the axles. Second worst part is pulling off the fenders and other rear sheet metal. The actual rebuild of the differential housing is not as hard as it looks. We can guide you through it.

[pfrederi 17,663]

13 minutes ago, Sailman said:

Thanks for the downloads and the info. Seems a pretty risky bearing to have go bad. Could lunch the whole tranny.

I can handle some mechanics but not a tranny rebuild. Recommend anyone to tackle the job? ball park expense? Better to just find a replacement?

Open to advice here...

 That is a tough question.  I gather you never actually had it working hard. There are a lot of things that can go wrong overtime.  The splitting of the transaxle and replacing the bearing is not that complex a job.  Just somewhat time consuming.  However if the hydro  pump /motor has been damaged it gets significantly more difficult...but as long as you take your time not insurmountable.  Don't know if anyone near you would tackle the rebuild.  GT-14 hydro gears are unique.  Donor would have to come from a GT-14 and they are not all that common. It is possible to modify a hydro gear from another model but that is even more involved.  The bearings are readily available and cheap. it is the time.  many of us here have done it and a 953 nut says we can guide you..  My opinion pull the the hydro unit off the rear end and look at the suction screen (you can do that without pulling the hubs which can be a big issue)

. if it is full of metal shavings I would hesitate to proceed unless i had time .  If it was fairly clean split the transaxle replace the bearing and try her out for a while.

Edited March 22, 2020 by pfrederi

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks for the suggestion. Will have to study the downloads to get an understanding of pulling the hydro unit off.

 

Any odds makers out there willing to speculate on the JB weld route?

[pfrederi 17,663]

6 minutes ago, Sailman said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Will have to study the downloads to get an understanding of pulling the hydro unit off.

 

Any odds makers out there willing to speculate on the JB weld route?

I would try that first then change fluid and filter and actually use the tractor and see how it works.

[Sailman 1,291]

That sounds like advice i can handle. Was thinking of topping up the fluid and running it like that to see how it works. Will just have a little fluid loss. Then progress with the JB weld if it runs and pulls ok.

Have been working on getting a rear tire but need to repair to the rim first. Found a skid steer tread in that size. Will have all that done this week.

Will post my results.

Thanks all for the help!

 

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

Looks like the hydro gurus (Paul, Steve, Richard, and Mike) have you covered.       When I buy a questionable hydro,  I always chain it to a tree or in this a Ford and make sure it will spin the tires with me in the seat..    If it operates through the full range of F/R motion with no noise or jerking I consider it a good hydro.       For the tractors with non running engines, I power the hydro from the rear with another tractor's PTO.

[Sailman 1,291]

Wow! Thats a set up...

So help me understand. If the hydro is good and strong, no noises then the hydro is good.

That would warrant repairing the needle bearing issue which is a separate unit in the gear box, correct?

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

Yes, IMO, if a hydro passes this  "dyno" load test, it is probably OK and I would continue with the necessary repairs.    Sealing the leak on the outside could last a long time.

I would consider cleaning and prepping a larger area and using  fiberglas cloth to reinforce the patch. 

[953 nut 55,065]

18 minutes ago, Sailman said:

Wow! Thats a set up...

So help me understand. If the hydro is good and strong, no noises then the hydro is good.

That would warrant repairing the needle bearing issue which is a separate unit in the gear box, correct?

YES

The axle assembly is driven by the power unit and the Hydrogear. There are about eight bolts that attach the Hydrogear to the transaxle and that entire unit can stay on the tractor once we know it is good. There is a lot of sheet metal and other stuff to remove which will consume the better part of a day..

There are several good threads on the subject on this site, when the time comes we will hook you up with a few.  For now you should get it running and driving to know what you have that is god and what may need attention.

[Sailman 1,291]

Great advice...it is starting to make sense to me and sounds manageable. Just need to get the wheel back on and new drive belt. Will give her a whirl!

Cool to see another wheel horse man below the mason-dixon line! Most of the wheel horse experts and tractors seem to be up north.

[ZXT 2,401]

Welcome to the forum! If all tests out good, I would certainly try the JB weld approach. Cleaning the area good might not be enough, though. If it is leaking as bad as it appears, I would think that fluid would begin running out and contaminating the surface before you got the JB weld on and cured. If it were me, I would drain the fluid and then raise the side of the tractor with the leak so that any residual fluid would run away from the bearing cap. Use brake cleaner to clean the surface. I have seen JB weld survive under significant stress in the past. Sealing off a leak ought to be an easy task for it!

 

Just be sure to use JB-Weld and not JB-Kwik. It doesn't stand up nearly as well to heat and water. 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

It depends on the use by PO, if he used cont. or if it‘s just standing for a longer time.

Gaskets can be drying, rubberseals becomes cracks.

I don‘t know much about the JB Weld, but i think we have here similar products

 

i would also try it that Way.

 

Do a 2 times oilcheck to verify if gearoil is not contaminated with metalparts as allready suggested.

 

first change the complete Gear Oil, passing thru a (coffe) filter, to see if there any metalparts are in.

If there are just a bit metal abrasion, change the complete oil and give it a testrun 

if the tranny runns without noise and pulls.

 

after your „pulltest“ do another oilchange with a filter and check, if the oil is still clean, lightly abrasion,

the Filter shall capturing.

 

if the oil itself looks good, ( similar to an engineoil rinse) i would use the JBWeld methode.

 

 

[Sailman 1,291]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I have drained the tranny and stiil have the old fluid so will do the strainer trick to see how it looks. Was a bit milky pink when i drained it. Will drain the recent fluid out to get a good dry finish on the area and strain it too.

I JB welded the engine block on a yanmar diesel years ago. Water jacket was leaking and the JB weld has stood the test of time on it. Just got to prep the area with cleaner and scuff good for adhesion.

Still leaves me wondering about the needle bearing condition...