1930 DeSoto

[Cvans 1,009]

Built an aluminum panel inside one of our blast freezers. Was probably 3' x 4' and I did the whole thing in 2" swirls. Could not believe all the comments that generated. Getting them even is the trick and I don't remember how I did it. 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Thanks @Cvans for allow the View inside,  that is really a Beauty.

 

Honestly being glad to hear, you kept it all in Original.

I love those old irons, especially if they in original condition.

 

All thumbs up, and allway‘s a good and save ride with it.

[Cvans 1,009]

Unfortunately one of the parts that arrived today for the differential was wrong and I'm going to try and find another spider gear. After  comparing the one that I thought was good with a new one it's apparent that it is badly worn.

   On a good note the new drive shaft was finished so I drove to Sioux Falls and picked it up. In this photo you can see the new and old shafts together. 

[bc.gold 3,403]

Now that is a really neat universal joint, reminds me of an old 1946 Dodge Power Wagon that used large ball bearings sandwiched between the hub side the the driven axle side - sorta like a constant velocity joint.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by bcgold

[Pullstart 62,838]

9 hours ago, bcgold said:

Now that is a really neat universal joint, reminds me of an old 1946 Dodge Power Wagon that used large ball bearings sandwiched between the hub side the the driven axle side - sorta like a constant velocity joint.

 

 

 

 

Looks like both ends are that way, so the middle can sort of float as the slip joint?

[Cvans 1,009]

Good diagram.

[bc.gold 3,403]

The drive shaft used on the 30's DeSoto is very long, to cancel harmonics the engineers used the slip joint, more modern day vehicles use a two piece drive shaft with a steady bearing.

 

Long read full of good information regarding drive-line harmonics which maybe of interest for those who build a drive line to power equipment driven from  their tractor.

 

https://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/drive_shaft_harmonics.php

 

Drive Shaft  Harmonics  DRIVELINE/UNIVERSAL     JOINT CANCELLATION       By  Jim  Clark,  Hot Rod  M.D.       What: Solving the problem of driveline vibration.  Driveline geometry.  The process that can be used to address a condition called driveline/universal joint cancellation, often referred to as adjusting pinion angle.  This process can be used to eliminate the vibration and premature wear caused by improper orientation and phasing of the driveline. This condition is caused because every U-joint that operates at an angle creates a vibration.  It creates that vibration because the U-joint cross rotates with the shaft in a circular motion while also moving from front to rear.  That rocking back and forth motion as it rotates causes the cross in the U-joint to accelerate and decelerate. If you could view this as rotating around the face of a clock with the cross rotating in a counterclockwise motion it would show the U-joint when at a horizontal position (3 to 9 o’clock) as traveling in a circular motion.  As the yoke arm at 3 o’clock travels counterclockwise towards 12 o’clock and tips to the rear of the vehicle it accelerates.  Then decelerates as it continues counterclockwise towards 9 o’clock as it rocks forward again returning to center.  Now again accelerates as it continues rotating counterclockwise from 9 o’clock to 6 o’clock and rocking towards the front of the vehicle.  Finally completing one rotation as it travels counterclockwise from 6 o’clock to 3 o’clock decelerating as it returns to center.  Because the U-joint is connected to the driveshaft and accelerates/decelerates through this full rotation, the driveshaft speeds up and slows down during each revolution.  This creates what is called excitation torque.

When viewed from the end, the path taken by the bearing cups is an ellipse, rotating forward and backwards as well as in its path around the centerline of the shaft.  When viewed from the side, the path taken by the bearing cups would look like an angled line rocking back and forth while rotating around the centerline of the shaft

To cancel this excitation torque, the U-joint at the other end of the shaft needs to rotate at an equal but opposite angle in relation to the U-joint up front.  By using U-joints in pairs and in phase, and the angle between the driveshaft and the equipment at both ends is the same, the acceleration/deceleration cycles tend to cancel each other. These U-joint angles should always be at least 1-degree to avoid wearing out the yoke bearings. How:  When you build a chassis and position the driveline components, you need to orient them so that the angle of a line drawn through the center of the transmission exiting through the output shaft (A) and a line drawn through the center of the driveshaft (B) is equal to but opposite the angle of a line drawn through the pinion shaft in the rear differential(C) and the line drawn through the center of the driveshaft (B).  The accompanying drawing illustrates how the lines drawn through the transmission and pinion shafts (A&C) are parallel to each other, though not in the same plane.

This drawing illustrates the relationship that needs to be established between the three main driveline components.

U-joint operating angles are generally the most common cause of driveline vibration in vehicles that have been reworked.  When reworking a chassis or installing a new driveshaft in a vehicle there are basic rules that apply to U-joint operating angles that you should follow. Number-1:  U-joint operating angles at each end of the shaft should always be at least 1-degree. Number-2:  If you are to achieve cancellation these U-joint operating angles on each end of a driveshaft should always be equal (within 1-degree), but opposite of each other. Number-3:  U-joint operating angles should not be larger than 3-degrees.  If they are, make sure that they do not exceed the maximum recommended angles. To set up the driveline you need to establish the angles for the transmission output shaft, rear end pinion shaft and driveshaft.  A good tool for measuring these angles is an inclinometer.  They can be obtained quite inexpensively from a local parts store or tool supplier. First measure the transmission output shaft angle.  It should be pointing downward to the rear with the vehicle sitting at ride height on a level surface.  At least 1-degree and ideally not more than 3-degrees down.  You can alter the transmission angle by inserting or removing shims under the rear transmission mount as shown in this photo.

Next step is to measure the rear end pinion shaft angle. It should be pointing upward towards the front with the vehicle sitting at ride height on a level surface.  At least 1-degree and ideally not more than 3-degrees up.  You can alter the rear end pinion shaft angle by inserting or removing wedge shaped shims under the rear spring mounts or by adjusting the length of the control arms positioning the rear end.  See photo below.

Finally measure the driveshaft angle to confirm that it is at least 1-degree down from the transmission output shaft angle and at least 1-degree up from the rear end pinion shaft angle.  Achieving these angles in relation to each other will cancel out the vibration.

Checking to see if you have got it correct:  If there is no vibration under normal operating conditions then the angles are correct.  If there is vibration under acceleration, you need to add more downward pinion angle preload.  If the opposite occurs, the vibrations tends to decrease or disappear under acceleration, you need to reduce the downward angle preload.  If the vibration steadily increases with driveshaft speed (either accelerating or decelerating) the symptom is primarily the result of a driveshaft imbalance or yoke runout.  Sometimes this yoke runout problem can be improved by rotating the U-joint 180-degrees in the rear end differential yoke. Driveshaft-related vibrations usually occur at roughly engine speed in high gear.  Wheel/axle vibrations usually occur at 1/3 rd engine speed or driveshaft speed because of the differential gearing.  To determining whether it is the output of the transmission or the pinion in the differential, change gears when the noise occurs and maintain speed.  If the vibration/noise changes in frequency, the source is in the transmission or engine.  If the frequency remains the same it is a driveline problem.

Edited April 4, 2020 by bcgold

[Cvans 1,009]

I'm down to needing only one more part for the differential. I'm bound and determined to find it today. 

Did get all the lights working along with the horn and cleaned up some of the wiring. Also repaired the back bumper and have it mounted again.

 

[ebinmaine 67,443]

Niiiice

[Cvans 1,009]

FOUND IT! I hope. It looks right, measures right, but is the wrong parts number. If anything it is 1/16" too long which is easily dealt with. Can't wait for it to get here so I can see if it is right. 

I'm finding that that 90 year old parts numbers don't always get updated correctly. 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Cvans

[ebinmaine 67,443]

2 minutes ago, Cvans said:

I'm finding that that 90 year old parts numbers don't always get updated correctly. 

I spent 12 years selling auto parts.

 

We found that 90 DAY old part numbers were challenging on occasion.

 

 

Really glad to hear that old rig is headed the right direction.

 

 

[Cvans 1,009]

Got all the new parts gathered up and checked them against the old ones and everything matches up. Started cleaning things for reassembly (decades old cosmoline). It's really amazing how well that stuff protects from corrosion and how hard it is to get off. Even diesel doesn't make a good cleaner. Ayway decided to pull the pinion shaft and discovered that the outboard bearing is pitted.  So now I have to find a bearing and race Monday as nothing is open on Saturday. One of the brake lines is kinked and will need some brake fluid also. I'd sure be a happy camper if I could get this put back together next week. 

[ebinmaine 67,443]

No worries man.... Headed the right direction.

 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Great you find parts,

are they Remanufactured or NOS ?

 

In my eyesight it appears the left lower pinion is a little bigger in the inner, than the right one in inner  

also if i compared on the screen with a caliper, but this could maybe just a distortion on perspective on the pict.

 

 

Great you have the Parts to reasseble they look good and usable.

 

[Pullstart 62,838]

Awesome deal!  It’ll feel so goo to have it rolling under it’s own power!

[Cvans 1,009]

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

are they Remanufactured or NOS ?

They are all new old stock. The boxes were literally falling apart. The hardest part was the pinion shaft. I had to laugh as the original price was written on the tag,71 cents. Cost today was $39.00 + shipping. 

4 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

In my eyesight it appears the left lower pinion is a little bigger in the inner, than the right one in inner  

I sure hope it's just an optical illusion. Now you have me wondering. I'll let you know but I'm pretty sure they are the same. 

[Ed Kennell 38,150]

It appears the two new small gears are just not placed beside the correct old gears.

[Cvans 1,009]

It appears the two new small gears are just not placed beside the correct old gears.

Kind of does look that way but they are all the same part number.

 

[Ed Kennell 38,150]

Can't believe everything you see.

[Cvans 1,009]

13 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

In my eyesight it appears the left lower pinion is a little bigger in the inner, than the right one in inner  

The splines on those gears are the same size. Tried each on both axles and they worked fine. Thankfully! 

Tractorhead Hope your wife takes all the blankets tonight. 

Making gaskets now for the axles and the differential and cleaning out the differential housing. 

Hope no more issues pop up. 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

8 minutes ago, Cvans said:

The splines on those gears are the same size. Tried each on both axles and they worked fine. Thankfully! 

Tractorhead Hope your wife takes all the blankets tonight. 

Making gaskets now for the axles and the differential and cleaning out the differential housing. 

Hope no more issues pop up. 

 

Pardon when i shocked you, that was not my Intention. 🙄

I just see the Pict and my eye tell‘s me they lower seems different, however.

Glad that it was only a fail on my side, better than on your‘s.

 

Think i go better, searching the blankets..😂😂

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,443]

49 minutes ago, Cvans said:

Tractorhead Hope your wife takes all the blankets tonight

 

31 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Think i go better, searching the blankets

 

 

[Cvans 1,009]

While in town today I wasn't able to find the bearing I need. So ordered it online and probably won't see it till next week. Seems like everything I need takes another week. Guess I'll start the finish work on the fender. Weather should be nice enough to do the sanding outside.  Hopefully some photos tomorrow. 

[Pullstart 62,838]

I’m thinking the illusion of the gears being different size might have been the heavy oil preservative on the surface?

[Cvans 1,009]

This afternoon I spent some time with the hammer and dolly knocking down high spots. Then it was onto the Bondo, cheese grater, and sanding. It's not going to take a lot more and the fender will be removed and the back side done. The underside of the fender will get undercoated. A couple more afternoons and it should be time for paint. Forgot to pick up glazing compound so there will be extra sanding unless I get to town.