Larger wheel studs or use bushings?

[ebinmaine 70,776]

Folks I need some expert help here.

 

On the Colossus project I'm using 15 inch wheels that have a 9/16 inch stud hole.

Wheelhorse hubs of course have a 7/16 inch stud.

My thought was to increase the size of the hole in the hubs and use through bolts to hold the wheels on.

I would lose next to no metal. Basically just take the threads out of the existing hole.

I don't want to tap the holes for 9/16 bolts because I don't have the tap and don't see the need to have those threads.

 

Right or wrong?

 

The other option would be to find some steel bushings that would be 7/16 inside and 9/16 outside and use those in the holes to take up the space.

 

I'm thinking that the increase in bolt size is going to be the more secure of the two setups.

 

 

What say you, Redsquare experts?

 

 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

Eric you are basically going from .438 to .563 diameter or .130 larger (.065 per side) so drilling the hub over size won't be to much stress and using through bolts should work just as well as threaded studs or bolts.

[ZXT 2,401]

What are these 15" wheels from? They might have a 9/16 hole, but they're meant for a smaller stud, and the lug nut takes up the rest of the space. I know GM used 7/16 studs on their cars - I'd install 7/16 studs and then get a set of lug nuts for a 70s GM car. 

 

I'll have to go check the diameter of the holes on a set of GM wheels to make sure I'm not giving bad info. Assuming you're using automotive wheels, they're probably either Dodge, Ford, Studebaker, Toyota.. etc. They all used 5x4.5" pattern. GM car used 5x4.75". Dodge used 1/2-20 studs whereas GM used 7/16-20. If the hole is in fact larger in your wheel than a 7/16 nut would accept, you'd more than likely only have to go up to a 1/2" bolt or stud. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by ZXT

[JAinVA 4,629]

I'm no expert but here goes.If the bolt pattern is the same the only issue I see is support from the hub face.The stock wheel fits over the projection in the face of the hub and I assume it provides critical load bearing.If the replacement wheel is supported only by the bolts it could cause the hub to fail at the bolt circle.

Edited March 15, 2020 by JAinVA

[gt14rider 843]

Hubs on gt14 are 9/16 -18, what  size axle colossus running,  and what size lugs are on D series. 

[ZXT 2,401]

I just went out and mic'd the holes in a couple of wheels. Not a considerable difference between the two wheels - in fact a Dodge wheel, which would use a larger stud, had a slightly smaller hole. The GM Rally wheel that I checked has roughly a .5830 hole. The Dodge wheel I checked has roughly a .5725 hole. Both are slightly larger than 9/16.

 

I would just use the ever-popular 7/16-20 stud that people use around here to convert their tractors from a bolt to a stud, and use a GM lug nut. Problem solved with no drilling!

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by ZXT

[ebinmaine 70,776]

Jeff. Thank you. I was thinking the same thing but it turns out I can't go exactly the way I wanted to because of the way the lip is on these wheels.

 

 

Jonah and Jim you're both correct.

The holes are 9/16 as I stated but the seat on one side obviously accepts the 7/16 wheel nut from a 60s car.

The wheels I'm using were taken off of a camper. 70s or 80s vintage but who knows if they had been changed.

 

Jim, you reminded me about checking the size of the center hole. For some silly reason I hadn't even thought to do that.

The Wheelhorse hubs are a lot larger on the hub lineup circle.

 

I was actually hoping to reverse the wheels to increase track width but I see that is not going to work. I'll switch gears a little bit and get some aluminum spacers maybe 2 inch thick...

 

[pfrederi 18,334]

D series  6 lug hubs use 9/16NF the centering ring is  is 4-5/8   GT 14 are 9/16NF centering ring is 3-5/8

[ZXT 2,401]

9 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

The holes are 9/16 as I stated but the seat on one side obviously accepts the 7/16 wheel nut from a 60s car.

 

I was actually hoping to reverse the wheels to increase track width but I see that is not going to work. I'll switch gears a little bit and get some aluminum spacers maybe 2 inch thick...

 

So what's the purpose of going to a larger stud? Because you planned on reversing the wheels and wouldn't have the chamfer for the lug nuts to center the wheel on? I can see this being considerably weaker, since there wouldn't be anything to keep the wheel from walking and wallering out the holes other than the bolt tension alone. 

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about the wheel centering ring as long as your wheel is large enough to go over it. Most aftermarket wheels on cars have a larger centering hole than the hub does, and simply rely on the lug nuts to keep it centered. If it works on cars/trucks, it ought to be fine on a GT.

Edited March 15, 2020 by ZXT

[ebinmaine 70,776]

Yeah... I didn't realize until today that the wheels aren't as flat as I had hoped.

The "drum side" is of course flat but thought the outside was as well.....

 

Nope.

 

No worries....

 

A 2" aluminum spacer would get me back to where I wanted to be for width.

 

 

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

58 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

I'm no expert but here goes.If the bolt pattern is the same the only issue I see is support from the hub face.The stock wheel fits over the projection in the face of the hub and I assume it provides critical load bearing.If the replacement wheel is supported only by the bolts it could cause the hub to fail at the bolt circle.

 

Cub cadets are only supported by the lugs and you don't see any issues with them, so I don't think that will be an issue.

 

 

Randy

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

16 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Yeah... I didn't realize until today that the wheels aren't as flat as I had hoped.

The "drum side" is of course flat but thought the outside was as well.....

 

Nope.

 

No worries....

 

A 2" aluminum spacer would get me back to where I wanted to be for width.

 

 

 

With a spacer, I think the lug nuts will self center and you won't have any issues Eric. Just use studs like I know you probably will anyway!

 

 

 

Randy

[Pullstart 64,576]

23 minutes ago, ZXT said:

So what's the purpose of going to a larger stud? Because you planned on reversing the wheels and wouldn't have the chamfer for the lug nuts to center the wheel on? I can see this being considerably weaker, since there wouldn't be anything to keep the wheel from walking and wallering out the holes other than the bolt tension alone. 

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about the wheel centering ring as long as your wheel is large enough to go over it. Most aftermarket wheels on cars have a larger centering hole than the hub does, and simply rely on the lug nuts to keep it centered. If it works on cars/trucks, it ought to be fine on a GT.

 

Last summer I did a mild lift on an F-150 for one of my wife’s coworkers.  The wheels we chose came with an assortment of plastic hub rings.  Yeah, I bet they don’t help much with holding weight... just centering for torquing lug nuts!

[JAinVA 4,629]

The steel wheels on my 2016 F250 aren't coinded at the stud area.There is a captured flat washer on the nut and all of the load in carried by a close fit to the hubs.I didn't mean to imply that lug nuts alone wouldn't support the load but rather a thinned hub rim caused by over drilling the threaded area could cause the hub of the tractor to fail.I may be overly cautious on further reflection.

[ebinmaine 70,776]

14 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

may be overly cautious on further reflection

I would rather have you that way every single time

[8ntruck 7,389]

I spent 40 years in the automotive steel wheel industry as an engineer.  The chamfer on the lug nut holes and lug nuts is there to retain lug nut torque.   The chamfer also serves to center the wheel on the hub.  Mounting wheels brake side out probably lead to loss of lug nut torque during use.

 

JainVA is correct about how the lug nuts with captured washers work on his F250.  The design of the lug nuts and captive helps insure the lug nuts stay tight.  There is a pretty good chance I was the press tooling engineer on those wheels.

 

When mixing stud sizes and bolt hole sizes you want to make sure the lug nuts do not bottom on the face of the hub instead of the wheel.

 

When using automotive wheels on our little tractors, we can get away with doing things that would cause catrastropic failures on cars.  The light loads and low speeds our tractors operate at is why we can do things with wheels that would be absolutely unthinkable on cars.

 

Remember, if you are running automotive steel wheels on your tractor, the preferred mounting orientation is brake side of wheel towards the hub.  If you are using wheels mounted brake side away from the hubs, be prepared to check your lug nut torque frequently and inspect the mounting area of the wheels for cracks when checking the lug nut torque.