Greetings from Northern Italy + C125 with K341

[VenetianWheelHorse 19]

Greetings to everybody from Northern Italy.

Ended up becoming a WheelHorse fan quite by chance. Was looking for a leaf-vacuum on trailer for my dad's property as raking leaves over 1 hectare at age 86 is back breaking.

Found an advert for an E-Z vac ( a rarity here in Northern Italy or in most places in Europe, I reckon). The advert included a WheelHorse C125 with the E-Z Vac. Started reading about WheelHorses (especially on this forum given the breadth of knowledge and advice I found here) and realised that, although the tractor was 40 years old, I had stumbled upon a gold nugget. Purchased both for 850 euros (937 US dollars at 29 february 2020 exchange rate) last week. I attach some pictures.
The C125 carries the following Mod number: 01-12K8-91 - according to TractorData it is an 8 speed model built in 1980, I assume that the 91 stands for location and indicates Belgium (I know that a US built tractor will have a 01 as the last two digits).

 

Now comes my question: could a C125 have been built with a Kohler K341 right from the start?
The engine on my C125 is clearly a Kohler but is missing the Identification Decal. However the previous owner jotted down the following number on the owner's booklet: K341, Spec: 71179a, Series 1021-7509.
As they seem too complete to have been made up I assume they are correct. According to the Kohler's Single Cylinder Service Manual K91-K341 (Fig. 1-2, page 1.3) they seem to indicate the engine is actually a K341 built in 1980.
As tractor and engine appear to have the same 1980 "birth date" I assume they came together right from the start.
Can anybody confirm whether a C125 was ever built/sold with a K341 engine on it?

Apologies for the rambling. Hoping to get an answer.

[Stormin 9,981]

   As far as I know, C-125's have the Kohler 12hp K301. That's what my USA built one has. As the PO has written down K341 I'm suspecting it has had an engine transplant.  l may be wrong, but if so someone with better knowledge than me will know.

 

850 euro's is a bargain in my opinion for all of that. Well done.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Stormin

[ZXT 2,401]

Welcome to !

The engine appears to be gray, which would indicate a replacement engine. Probably a good thing, considering It should have quite a few less hours on it than the original engine would have. Like Norm said, it should've had a K301 (over here, at least) but a K341 is a good engine and has a good amount more power.. Not that you'll really utilize it for what you're doing! Looks like you found yourself a good worker.

 

[BOB ELLISON 2,981]

Over here in the USA when wheelhorse made a tractor the numbers indicated the horse power.

In your case the C125 means a 12 hp engine. 

Mine is a C160 meaning it came with a 16 hp engine. As a usual rule of thumb the first numbers indicated the engine displacement .

[SylvanLakeWH 25,848]

 

Nice find!

 

Love the Black Hoods!!! 

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Welcome to Red Square.  Actually, your engine looks blue...the true sign of a good transplant.  Nice horse and thank you for the pictures.  

[rjg854 11,451]

so happy to see you found us, its a good place to hang out lots of fun and information and people. 

[VenetianWheelHorse 19]

Thank you all for your warm welcome.

 

@ Stormin + Bob Ellison: from what I gathered on this forum and on reading the WheelHorse manuals a C125 should have a 12Hp engine, (i.e. a K301 if the tractor had a Kohler). Hence my surprise when I realised it may have a K341 on it.

Is there any way to distinguish a K301 from a K341 from a quick external survey? If not, I shall look at the cylinder head as confirmation of which engine it is, as I discovered that the K341 has 10 nuts on the cylinder head rather than the 9 that the K301 and K321 have.

 

@ Stormin: Thank you for confirming that 850 euros was a deal. The seller was initially asking 1500 euros, I made him an offer of 800 euros (such amount was built on what I had learnt on this website). We agreed on 850 but I was still afraid I had overpaid for it.

 

@ZXT: what do you mean by "The engine appears to be gray, which would indicate a replacement engine". I was not aware that Kohler had colour coded its engines, but you may be right about it being a replacement engine. While searching the internet for the K341 parts-list I found a website listing all the K341 under their different spec. numbers. Apparently the K341 was installed on just about everything (WheelHorse, Massey Ferguson, Aero Marine, Jacobsen, Bolens, Koehring, etc) but the specific spec. 71179 is listed as "SERVICE ENGINE". What does "service engine" actually mean?

 

@ZXT: In my opinion, this K341 engine unfortunately does not have any fewer hours than the original K301, since both this particular engine and the tractor were "born" in 1980; i.e. had there been an engine swap this must have taken place soon after the tractor was purchased. But why such replacement so soon after the purchase of the tractor? Might it be instead that this particular C125 was "custom made"?

 

@ Stevasaurus: Blue?!? Unless you are pulling my leg (i.e. joking) I am getting confused now, and I reckon I need to book an optician visit asap. To me it looks neither gray nor blue actually.

 

@ everyone: apart from the different engine, what other differences are there between the C125 and the C165?

 

@ everyone: as regards spare parts for both the engine and the tractor, can anybody recommend reliable and cheap suppliers either in the States or here in Europe?
I do realise that "reliable" and "cheap" rarely go together, but I keep hoping.

 

@ everyone: Many thanks in advance for any advice and tips as regards restoring, repairing, maintenance, etc.

 

 

 

 

[Pullstart 63,057]

@VenetianWheelHorse   

 

the difference between the models you mentioned would be a 16 horse vs a 12 horse engine.

 

nice deal you got there, looks like just the right thing for picking up leaves or any other yard/garden needs!

[Achto 27,720]

4 hours ago, VenetianWheelHorse said:

Stevasaurus: Blue?!? Unless you are pulling my leg (i.e. joking) I am getting confused now, and I reckon I need to book an optician visit asap. To me it looks neither gray nor blue actually.

 

10 hours ago, VenetianWheelHorse said:

 

In this pic the engine block looks blue.

 

4 hours ago, VenetianWheelHorse said:

as regards spare parts for both the engine and the tractor, can anybody recommend reliable and cheap suppliers either in the States or here in Europe?

 

It looks like you found a great deal. Here is a link to a supplier that I use quite often. http://www.psep.biz/

 

 

[ZXT 2,401]

5 hours ago, VenetianWheelHorse said:

@ZXT: what do you mean by "The engine appears to be gray, which would indicate a replacement engine". I was not aware that Kohler had colour coded its engines, but you may be right about it being a replacement engine. While searching the internet for the K341 parts-list I found a website listing all the K341 under their different spec. numbers. Apparently the K341 was installed on just about everything (WheelHorse, Massey Ferguson, Aero Marine, Jacobsen, Bolens, Koehring, etc) but the specific spec. 71179 is listed as "SERVICE ENGINE". What does "service engine" actually mean?

 

@ZXT: In my opinion, this K341 engine unfortunately does not have any fewer hours than the original K301, since both this particular engine and the tractor were "born" in 1980; i.e. had there been an engine swap this must have taken place soon after the tractor was purchased. But why such replacement so soon after the purchase of the tractor? Might it be instead that this particular C125 was "custom made"?

Sorry, the picture I looked at looked gray. If it's blue I apologize! I just know that it isn't the correct color for an original WH engine. Typically replacement engines from Kohler were painted gray. I've seen them referred to as both "warranty engines" and "service engines". Unless I'm mistaken, a service engine would simply designate it as being a replacement engine from Kohler.

 

It might just be a coincidence that the tractor and replacement engine were built the same year. It could've lived with the original engine for quite some time. It's possible that the engine was NOS that Kohler had on a shelf somewhere. Probably not very likely over here where Kohlers were common, but on your side of the pond where they were less common it might be a different story. Regardless, if it runs good and doesn't smoke and you service it regularly, it should last a long time.

[Stormin 9,981]

The engine on my C-125 was blue as well. Another replacement engine at sometime. I say was, because it's now black.

 

For Kohler parts I use a company over here in England. :-  Address: Far Furlong, Blackleach Lane, Preston PR4 0JA     http://www.meetens.co.uk/

 

 

[953 nut 55,703]

Looks like a great deal there, the tractor alone is worth the price and you also have a fine leaf vacuum system.          

[VenetianWheelHorse 19]

Thank you for your replies.

 

@pullstart: I thought that there would have been several differences between the C125 and the C165 such as heavier axle, stronger frame, etc. But if you are correct and the only difference between the two models is the engine, then the tractor I bought is for all intents and purposes a C165 (though sporting a C125 sticker on the hood).

 

@Achto: you are right. On closer inspection it is actually a shade of blue. I have already booked a visit at the optician! Thanks for providing a link to a reliable supplier. I shall contact them to find out about shipping costs.

 

@ZXT: you may be right. The local italian distributor might have had a spare K341 sitting on the shelves for some time. By the way what does NOS stand for?
We just switched it on very briefly to test whether it was functioning. It seems to run alright (deep rumbling tractor noise), though it left a strong smell of un-burnt petrol (gasoline) in the air when we switched it off. Any idea as to why?

I will be carrying out full proper maintenance in April.

 

@Stormin: thank you for your supplier's details. I will compare their prices with the supplier provided by Achto.

 

@953 nut: thank you for giving further confirmation that I have not overpaid for it.

My mum was complaining about the price I paid! I will now be able to reassure her that she not sitting on "wasted money" when driving the tractor around the vineyard.

 

@ everyone: now going through the manuals jotting down all the items I need to buy to carry out an overhaul of both the engine and the tractor. Any advice and tips on what to purchase (and what to avoid purchasing) and on mistakes to avoid during the overhaul are most welcome!

 

[Achto 27,720]

21 hours ago, VenetianWheelHorse said:

By the way what does NOS stand for?

 

New Old Stock - An item that was purchased new but was never used.

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

TO

[tunahead72 2,424]

On 2/29/2020 at 9:16 PM, Achto said:

 

... Here is a link to a supplier that I use quite often. http://www.psep.biz/

 

 

There's a list of other suppliers here on RedSquare:

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/56576-3-parts-suppliers/

 

I don't know about their shipping to Italy, you'll just have to contact them and ask.  For Kohler parts, I've had very good luck over the years with OPE Engines.  Almost all of their parts are genuine Kohler, and their prices are very good (at least here in the U.S.).  Their web site doesn't tell you if the parts you need are in stock, but if you contact them they'll give you that information very quickly.  They've never steered me wrong.

 

You should also check our vendors here:

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/92-vendors/

 

On 3/1/2020 at 2:04 PM, VenetianWheelHorse said:

 

… @ everyone: now going through the manuals jotting down all the items I need to buy to carry out an overhaul of both the engine and the tractor. Any advice and tips on what to purchase (and what to avoid purchasing) and on mistakes to avoid during the overhaul are most welcome!

 

 

I may have missed it, but is there a particular need for overhauls?  Or is it just something you want to do?

 

----------------

 

I should have started with this, but I didn't start reading this thread until just a few minutes ago.  So welcome aboard! 

 

I see you haven't posted in a couple of weeks, and I know your country has been hit very hard by the coronavirus.  How are you doing?