Can 8 + 3 = 6?

[ebinmaine 68,352]

I've asked about this in another thread but I figured I would start a new one dedicated to it.

@Stepney Spenser and I have been pondering what's needed to accomplish creating a 6-speed from a 3-speed.

 

To my thinking, the primary differences between a six-speed and an eight-speed are the location of the brake drum and the fact that most (all?)  6 speeds have limited slip 10 pinion differentials.

 

I remember there being mention of a gear that is different as well.

 

I have here 1 complete 3 speed and one whole 8-speed.

Can the 2 be combined to make a 6? I do understand that it won't have limited slip of course. We would use the 8 pinion differential from the 8-speed transmission... Unless someone has an extra steelcase 10 pinion diff.

 

The benefit of all this would be experimentation, knowledge, and also getting the brake drum in the appropriate location for a single pedal tractor.

[Herder 2,354]

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Only problem l could see is the

difference in the axle size.

[953 nut 55,773]

Many of the internal parts from a three speed can be used in an eight speed to salvage it.

[ebinmaine 68,352]

25 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

salvage

I'm not so much worried about saving one transmission or another. I have two good transmissions.

 

[Pullstart 63,096]

Using the brake parts from the 8 speed donor, you can have a 8 speed single pedal tractor 

 

I haven’t yet built the parking brake lever, but it is because of laziness... not lack of information.

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,352]

2 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Using the brake parts from the 8 speed donor, you can have a 8 speed single pedal tractor 

 

I haven’t yet built the parking brake lever, but it is because of laziness... not lack of information.

 

 

 

 

Sure can. I did that in the mongrel 1267/1287.

 

It ran and drove fine but the geometry of the linkage push-pull angles is different from a 3, 6 to 4, 8.

 

After messing around with it off and on for about a month I was able to get the clutch, brake, and parking lever all working but it was an EXTREMELY fine adjustment and in a very short time it lost that adjustment due to either brake band or belt wear.

 

Considering that I was trying to build a snow plow tractor and I use that mechanism a LOT I decided it was not the right tractor for the job.

 

 

The other reason we want to try to do it is..... Well, why not?

 

[Pullstart 63,096]

36 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

Sure can. I did that in the mongrel 1267/1287.

 

It ran and drove fine but the geometry of the linkage push-pull angles is different from a 3, 6 to 4, 8.

 

After messing around with it off and on for about a month I was able to get the clutch, brake, and parking lever all working but it was an EXTREMELY fine adjustment and in a very short time it lost that adjustment due to either brake band or belt wear.

 

Considering that I was trying to build a snow plow tractor and I use that mechanism a LOT I decided it was not the right tractor for the job.

 

 

The other reason we want to try to do it is..... Well, why not?

 

 

Gotcha.  My brake needs on flat no man’s land is much lesser than mountain man’s land I suppose.

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Can 8 + 3 = 6???   short answer is NO!!  

1.  All 6 speeds are born as 10 pinion Limited Slip differentials.  The axles are different lengths and 1 1/8" diameter.

2.  All 3 speeds are 1" axles...except the Heavy Duty Bevel Gear Differentials...no help at all if you want any pinions, much less 10 pinions.

3.  You can take an 8 speed and make it a 6 speed.  You can take a 6 speed and make it an 8 speed.  You need to have the service bulletin to see what it takes.  The 2 piece mushroom gear is part of it.

4.  If you take the IPL's for say the 702 and the IPL's for say a C-120 and compare the part numbers, you will see that really not to many parts are the same number and are not inter-changeable.

5.  The case halves are not even close for what I think you are trying to do.  Sure the gasket is a #3912 and the same in all the manual transmissions, but the inside of the right side case is poured different for the hi/low mechanism.  The hi/low mechanism changes the gear ratios of the cluster gear.  Just like a 15 speed road ranger in a cab over truck...you have 5 gears forward and 3 ranges so you keep shifting the same pattern 3 times.

6.  SO...... 8 + 3 = 11  it always will.    

7.  Stop drinking Black Label...nothing good ever came of it.  

[ebinmaine 68,352]

8 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Can 8 + 3 = 6???   short answer is NO!!  

1.  All 6 speeds are born as 10 pinion Limited Slip differentials.  The axles are different lengths and 1 1/8" diameter.

2.  All 3 speeds are 1" axles...except the Heavy Duty Bevel Gear Differentials...no help at all if you want any pinions, much less 10 pinions.

3.  You can take an 8 speed and make it a 6 speed.  You can take a 6 speed and make it an 8 speed.  You need to have the service bulletin to see what it takes.  The 2 piece mushroom gear is part of it.

4.  If you take the IPL's for say the 702 and the IPL's for say a C-120 and compare the part numbers, you will see that really not to many parts are the same number and are not inter-changeable.

5.  The case halves are not even close for what I think you are trying to do.  Sure the gasket is a #3912 and the same in all the manual transmissions, but the inside of the right side case is poured different for the hi/low mechanism.  The hi/low mechanism changes the gear ratios of the cluster gear.  Just like a 15 speed road ranger in a cab over truck...you have 5 gears forward and 3 ranges so you keep shifting the same pattern 3 times.

6.  SO...... 8 + 3 = 11  it always will.    

7.  Stop drinking Black Label...nothing good ever came of it.  

I love how you numbered out the list of directions there.

 

I do very much appreciate the information. Thank you for that.

 

I feel like I should modify number 7. I don't drink Black label. In fact I rarely drink any beer at all. Just not really a huge fan of it.

I do like a nice citrus type beer.

 

Now..... Kapali and milk. That's the stuff. Oh man.

 

Notwithstanding both of those I do on a Very regular basis boil my own coffee. Camp coffee. Cowboy coffee. Whatever you want to call it.

That by itself should prove that I am not quite right....

 

 

So, no worries on the transmission. We'll just go back to the drawing board and figure out something else.

 

[squonk 41,334]

All I know is Lou Costello taught me 13 x 7 = 28. 

 

This discussion would be a good topic for the Tailgate of Knowledge.

[ebinmaine 68,352]

7 minutes ago, squonk said:

Lou Costello taught me 13 x 7 = 28. 

Had to Google that.....

 

AWESOME.....

 

[tunahead72 2,432]

Likewise, that was ridiculous.  So maybe Steve's wrong, and 8+3 does actually equal 6?

 

[ebinmaine 68,352]

6 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Likewise, that was ridiculous.  So maybe Steve's wrong, and 8+3 does actually equal 6?

 

In the "New math" it can equal whatever I want it to be... 

[squonk 41,334]

6 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Likewise, that was ridiculous.  So maybe Steve's wrong, and 8+3 does actually equal 6?

 

Well he was in the Navy! 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Eric, I hope you did not take my above post as criticism, part of me thinks I was a little hard on you.  We both know, there is always a way to do something.  Actually, I was not sure if I actually understood what you were trying to do.  If I missed the point, I would enjoy hearing what you guys were coming up with.    

[ebinmaine 68,352]

Just now, stevasaurus said:

Eric, I hope you did not take my above post as criticism, part of me thinks I was a little hard on you.  We both know, there is always a way to do something.  Actually, I was not sure if I actually understood what you were trying to do.  If I missed the point, I would enjoy hearing what you guys were coming up with.    

Oh no no no no

 

Not even remotely sir. It's all good.

 

 

You gave me the answer I was looking for.

 

I don't get to flusticated about stuff anyway.

Things are what they are. They either work or don't work.

 

Sometimes I get looking around at the conglomeration of Wheelhorse parts I've accumulated and I get wondering what you can do with what.

 

I ask a question or two. I get an answer or two. And I very much appreciate the help from all of you.

 

[stevasaurus 22,865]

I know how you feel.  That is exactly what happened when Lane gave me those 4 or 5 transmissions to try to make one.  A lot of members, like Racin'Bob, got involved in a thread that went to 10 pages to see what was possible to save these 3 piece transmissions...and I had a two piece #5025 open at the same time.  Talk about brain storming!!  I will tell you this, open that 3 speed and the 8 speed at the same time...do a thread with videos.  It does make a difference having everything laying out in front of you.  I have been very fortunate in that regard.  

 

 

[Pullstart 63,096]

Don’t a single one of you try to teach my daughters math!

 

[adsm08 2,175]

12 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Don’t a single one of you try to teach my daughters math!

 

 

A man named O'Brian taught me math once. 2+2=5.

[tunahead72 2,432]

Did you believe him?

 

[tunahead72 2,432]

 

See how easy it is to get off topic here?  Sorry Eric, carry on...