To repower or not to repower......

[oilwell1415 563]

I'm debating whether or not I should repower my 552.  It has a Tecumseh HT55C on it, which is not original but is period correct.  The engine basically runs well for most of what I need, but has a few issues to work out and will be difficult to repair or rebuild if I ever need to.  Both diodes are bad on the charging system, which I can rewire for about $20 to use modern components.  One of the charging coils has no output and I'm working on getting the flywheel off to inspect that, but if I have to replace that coil it will cost some money.  Or I found an electric start version of the Harbor Freight 212 on Amazon for $170.  Don't recall what the manufacturer was, but it was pretty obviously a knock off of the HF knockoff, but with electric start.  I will be adding some lights to this tractor, so I need to keep the electrical system and I suspect the charging system on the new engine will put out more power for the lights than the Tec has.  I really like the engine I have, but realistically it isn't very practical and this tractor is not going to be a show winner anyway.  Any thoughts to sway me one way or the other? 

[ebinmaine 67,266]

Now...mostly I'm just throwing a comment on here to say that I'm chiming in to follow along and see what the others say....

 

And I know this isn't part of the original question. I have kind of an innate leaning tendency towards the older iron block engines.

I'm not really for or against the techie engines but I understand yours is approaching the level of being impractical to reuse.

 

Have you put consideration into a small Kohler?

 

 

[oilwell1415 563]

Yes, I've looked at older Kohlers.  But financially they don't make much sense.  Just getting one will cost more than the 212, and then it may end up needing work as well.  I'm basically at a three way fork in the road between keeping what I have and knowing it's basically sound, but will be difficult to keep running long term; getting another old engine that is an unknown quantity and will cost more up front plus possibly needing work to get it running; or just buying a new engine that I can bolt on and hopefully forget about for a few years.

[Mudrig150 298]

Go with a Kohler swap if you want cheapish easy reliabilty. Parts are available super easily, mainly from them being available for 20+ years. A whole rebuild for a K series is about 200$, which considering other engine prices, is cheap. 

Go with the predator 212 if you want a new engine, but I have seen a few people have issues long term, mainly from them being so cheap.

Keeping the tecumseh really has little to no benefit that I see.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Mudrig150

[oilwell1415 563]

Asking prices on used (and possibly/probably used up) Kohlers around here are $200-300.  If it needs a rebuild I'm looking at $400-500 before it's even on the tractor and running.  I can get a new Kohler 9hp for that.  But one of the reasons I am interested in an old Kohler is that they have a lot of displacement for the power they make, so that should mean more torque.  The finances of having a $500 60 year old engine, then possibly having carb, ignition, and starter work on top of that, just don't make a lot of sense.

[oilwell1415 563]

I guess another piece of information that might be useful is that I haven't been able to get the flywheel off yet.  I'm going to try again today with some heat and and penetrating oil, but I'm not optimistic.  I think I've got an issue with the ignition after the engine warms up and I know I've got charging issues, so the if the flywheel won't come off I'm pretty much stuck with an engine swap anyway.

[ebinmaine 67,266]

Do you have the correct flywheel removal tool? Basically a long nut that's closed on one end?

 

[oilwell1415 563]

I don't know if it's the official Wheel Horse tool, but it is a proper puller.

[ebinmaine 67,266]

1 minute ago, oilwell1415 said:

puller

That's just it right there. According to the tecumseh manual I read through you can't use a puller.

 

Sounded ridiculous to me at first but it's basically an extended nut that screws on to the end of the crankshaft and you literally smack that nut to dislodge the crankshaft from the flywheel.

I found out the hard way that you cannot use a regular nut or take the one off the end of the flywheel and turn it around.

 

That was how I broke the crankshaft on Trina's 657 engine.

 

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

I would go with a K181. Hard to beat 

the little 8 horse kohlers!

[oilwell1415 563]

17 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

That's just it right there. According to the tecumseh manual I read through you can't use a puller.

 

Sounded ridiculous to me at first but it's basically an extended nut that screws on to the end of the crankshaft and you literally smack that nut to dislodge the crankshaft from the flywheel.

I found out the hard way that you cannot use a regular nut or take the one off the end of the flywheel and turn it around.

 

That was how I broke the crankshaft on Trina's 657 engine.

 

 

The knock off tool is just for engines that don't have the holes drilled and tapped for a puller.  Mine has the puller holes.

[ebinmaine 67,266]

23 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

The knock off tool is just for engines that don't have the holes drilled and tapped for a puller.  Mine has the puller holes.

just as a point of interest I was told by a former Tecumseh technician NOT to use the holes in the flywheel. Always use the knock off tool.

They have a severe tendency to pull the threads out.

Again, not my experience. Not my knowledge. This is what I was told.

 

[oilwell1415 563]

There are two Kohler 11hp engines for sale about an hour from me for $200.  Will one of those fit without cutting the hood?

[Pullstart 62,783]

@oilwell1415 The 552 is practically the exact machine as Putt Putt, my 502... just with electric start.  I used to run a Predator 212 but had to run no hood because of the way the cylinder lays down on the Honda platform engines.  If I wanted to run the correct belt guard, there was no way to fit the hood without hacking.

 

As for the 11 horse Kohlers, do you have pictures of them by chance?  I’m not aware of any horizontal crankshaft engines being 11 hp.  I had to raise the hood some 3” give or take to clear the big block 10 hp Kohler under Frank, my wife’s 753 bodied Charger 12 automatic dubbed a “1073”.  

[Cvans 1,009]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Have you put consideration into a small Kohler?

 

Briggs all the way! 

[ebinmaine 67,266]

Just now, Cvans said:

 

Briggs all the way! 

I'm fine with that too. I've always been a Briggs guy until we got horses with Kohler's in them.

[oilwell1415 563]

Looks like the Tec is getting a commuted sentence for now.  Played around with it some last night and traced the running problem to the carb instead of the ignition.  Took 3 laps around the row of hangars with no issues and it wouldn't go 1/2 lap before.  Running problem solved, now just have to get it charging again.  But I have a plan for that.

[Mudrig150 298]

17 hours ago, oilwell1415 said:

 But one of the reasons I am interested in an old Kohler is that they have a lot of displacement for the power they make, so that should mean more torque.

They do. A K181 (8 hp) has 14.5 ft/lb torque, K241 (10 hp) has 16.25 ft/lb torque, a K301 (12 hp) has 22.25, a K321 (14 hp) has 23.75, and a K341 (16 hp) makes 25.75, which may not seem like a lot, but when you realize that that torque is multiplied up 100+ times, it makes a difference.

[oilwell1415 563]

22 hours ago, pullstart said:

@oilwell1415 The 552 is practically the exact machine as Putt Putt, my 502... just with electric start.  I used to run a Predator 212 but had to run no hood because of the way the cylinder lays down on the Honda platform engines.  If I wanted to run the correct belt guard, there was no way to fit the hood without hacking.

 

 

The plot thickens for electric start because the battery is in the way of moving the engine back.  Not a difficult problem, but a problem just the same.

 

How much interference is there with the hood?  I’m going to have to work on mine anyway and could put a bulge in it to clear the engine.  I’m keeping the Tec for now, but likely not forever.

[ebinmaine 67,266]

@VinsRJ

Has a 66 or 67 vintage? With the battery in the seat tray toolbox but I don't know what he did to get it there.

 

[oilwell1415 563]

Moving a battery is easy, it’s just something else to do.  I thought about tucking it up higher under the hood or mounting it below the frame since I don’t plan on ever using a deck, blade, or anything else down there.

[cschannuth 3,816]

I have Briggs, Kohlers, and a hemi Predator and they are all great. I had a 606 roller and my Dad had a 212cc Predator sitting on a shelf he never got around to using. I had to spread the front of the hood a bit but no cutting was required. I’ve been using it for several years and it still starts on the first pull every time. And the power is amazing. I upsized the engine pulley so that it runs about 9 mph and it pulls trailers and pushes snow effortlessly. 
 

[Cvans 1,009]

6 hours ago, oilwell1415 said:

 I thought about tucking it up higher under the hood

Thinking this is where it's going to have to be on the Lister diesel project if I can get back to it. 

[tom2p 2,394]

12 hours ago, cschannuth said:

I have Briggs, Kohlers, and a hemi Predator and they are all great. I had a 606 roller and my Dad had a 212cc Predator sitting on a shelf he never got around to using. I had to spread the front of the hood a bit but no cutting was required. I’ve been using it for several years and it still starts on the first pull every time. And the power is amazing. I upsized the engine pulley so that it runs about 9 mph and it pulls trailers and pushes snow effortlessly. 
 

nice job - looks and sounds great 

 

and sweet looking Torino (?) - appears to be in original condition and very clean 

 

the tractor seat could use a tad more padding though  lol

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by tom2p

[cschannuth 3,816]

1 hour ago, tom2p said:

nice job - looks and sounds great 

 

and sweet looking Torino (?) - appears to be in original condition and very clean 

 

the tractor seat could use a tad more padding though  lol

 

 

Ha ha, thanks. That was early on in the build process. I have a better seat on there now.