Muscle Cars & Hot rods

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

probably because at 42, I still haven’t grown up!😂

[ZXT 2,401]

13 hours ago, PeacemakerJack said:

Thanks @ZXT for the pics and info.  I’ll be starting a thread eventually for a repower on “WARRIOR” which is my 1995 K2500 work truck.

The 5.7 TBI is tired and honestly, I want more power without affecting reliability.  I located a 2004 Chev Express with a roasted 4L80E tranny.  It has a strong running LQ4 6.0 liter and that will find its way into Warrior soon.  I need to gather all the necessary swap parts and mainly science out the electronics/computer side of things.  Anyone here who has experience with these swaps, I’d appreciate your input.  Can’t wait to see what your Elky looks like all put together and working...

 

That ought to be a pretty straightforward swap. The 04 LQ4 will have a drive by wire throttle body on it, whereas you obviously are drive by cable with the 350. You could swap to a DBC throttle body and retain your mechanical throttle, though you'd need a longer cable. If you do go with the DBW setup, be sure and get the pedal and TAC module out of the 04!

 

I'm assuming the truck has a 4l60E? I know that the crank spacing (as in the flywheel flange) is slightly different on LS engines than on a traditional SBC. The transmissions stayed the same physically between the two engines, but a different torque converter was used. I think that you can retain your stock converter with the use of a flexplate spacer that is sold just for that. 

 

Actually, seeing it is a 95, you will likely still have issues. On 4L60E's, 94 was a unique year and so was 95 as far as internal electronics. 96+ are essentially the same and an LS computer will control them no problem. From what I've read, 94-5 transmissions are a no-go behind LS engines. 

 

Engine mounts are easy. I used a $25 adapter mount set off of eBay. 1/4" plate that mounts to the block, and then the factory SBC mounts bolt to them. Sits down on the factory frame mounts without any hassle. 

 

As for wiring.. Prices have come down a LOT on swap harnesses, as opposed to 3 years ago when I bought mine. I paid $600 for mine from DB Automotive. It is a very nice harness. I was looking around on eBay yesterday, and I came across a number of harnesses for $200 or less that were stand alone and ready to go. Most of your factory engine wiring could be removed, with the exception of a few sensor wires needed to run your gauges. You'll have to have the computer "tuned" to remove the VATS (anti theft system), set for your trucks gearing, number of o2 sensors you'll be running (typically just 2 with a swap), whether you'll be using a cable or wire throttle, and other things that you won't have that would throw codes. I found a service on eBay that did mine for around $45 if I remember correctly. Since you already have your computer, you'll notice that the 2 connectors that plug into the ECM are blue and green. Keep this in mind when you're ordering a harness (assuming you're not going to modify the stock harness yourself, which a lot of people do) as the earlier red/blue ECM and harnesses are not compatible!

 

I'm fairly sure that I've seen high-pressure fuel pumps advertised to replace the lower pressure TBI pump for that generation truck before. I'm not sure if the truck intake/fuel rail is a single line or if it has a return. It if is a single line, the most common thing to do is put a factory 90s Camaro/Corvette regulator/filter near the tank, and then have a single line running to the engine. This is what I did with mine. 

 

I'm sure I've missed something but if you need to know any more, let me know! My swap is obviously different from yours in a lot of ways, but the main principles still apply!

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

Thanks for the great info ZXT.  I’ll start a thread on this and tag you.  A couple of cool things with my particular swap:

1.  My truck has an NV4500 tranny-no electronic controls

2. This is a real shocker—the van that I bought has a drive by cable to the engine. In typical fashion, the vans must’ve lagged behind the rest of the technology. 

3. Thanks for the info on the wiring harnesses and the engine mounts 

[ZXT 2,401]

1 hour ago, PeacemakerJack said:

Thanks for the great info ZXT.  I’ll start a thread on this and tag you.  A couple of cool things with my particular swap:

1.  My truck has an NV4500 tranny-no electronic controls

2. This is a real shocker—the van that I bought has a drive by cable to the engine. In typical fashion, the vans must’ve lagged behind the rest of the technology. 

3. Thanks for the info on the wiring harnesses and the engine mounts 

Interesting that the van still used DBW in 04! I know '03 was the crossover year for trucks.

 

With the NV4500, you might have to source a different flywheel. I know I did for mine. 

 

Here's a bit from an article from Hot Rod Magazine. 

 

"Just because a traditional bellhousing "bolts up" doesn't mean the longitudinal stack-up is correct. Except for a few rare truck LS engines circa 19992000, LS cranks are 0.400-inch shorter relative to the block's bellhousing mounting face compared to a traditional Chevy V8. A special GM pilot bearing (PN 12557583) is available, which compensates for the difference and allows the use of a standard-length transmission input shaft. McLeod offers a functionally similar bearing under its PN 1094-4. GM has an LS-type flywheel (PN 12561680) suitable for use with traditional four-speeds. This flywheel has an LS six-bolt metric mounting pattern and flywheel dowel-hole location. McLeod offers a special thick LS flywheel (PN 460535) that, combined with the extended pilot bearing, allow the transmission's relative location to remain in the same location, allowing the use of a GM factory or aftermarket traditional V8 bellhousing. Unlike the GM 'wheel, McLeod's version is dual-drilled for both the LS 10mm metric mounting bolts as well as the traditional 38-16 U.S. fasteners. (The metric bolt threads extend all the way to the top of the bolt hole, while the U.S. threads are recessed about 0.200 inch below the surface.) Note that some performance passenger-car LS engines use cranks that require eight- or even nine-bolt flywheels." https://www.hotrod.com/articles/legacy-manual-trans-behind-ls-style-block/

 

Did the NV4500 ever come behind an LS based engine? I don't know what size clutch it uses (I assume probably a 12") so a flywheel mentioned above probably won't work. I wound up getting one from around a 2000 truck with a 4.8 and a 5 speed. They had an offset flywheel that compensates for the shorter crank flange. Only the 4.8 trucks came with them though.

[ZXT 2,401]

Took the El Camino on its maiden voyage today. Was having hell getting the drive by wire throttle working. Pedal tested out good, as did the throttle control module, and throttle body/TPS. Still no throttle. Went to the local salvage yard that i frequent and got another pedal and throttle control module. No change. He didn't have another throttle body, and I was at my wits end so I bit the bullet and went to oreillys and bought a new throttle position sensor. Bolted it on the throttle body and all is good!

 

Drove it down to my family's river place, about 15 miles each way as a shakedown run. Did great! Way more power than the 350 that came out of it was making!

 

Now I just need to do something about the body.. 

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

Unfortunately we have reached the end of the hot rod season here in east central WI

 

however, there are a few guys still getting a last run or two before putting their babies to sleep for the season.

 

i saw this beauty on a run to the local lumberyard...

whatcha think my blue oval buddies?

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:44 AM, ZXT said:

Interesting that the van still used DBW in 04! I know '03 was the crossover year for trucks.

 

With the NV4500, you might have to source a different flywheel. I know I did for mine. 

 

Here's a bit from an article from Hot Rod Magazine. 

 

"Just because a traditional bellhousing "bolts up" doesn't mean the longitudinal stack-up is correct. Except for a few rare truck LS engines circa 19992000, LS cranks are 0.400-inch shorter relative to the block's bellhousing mounting face compared to a traditional Chevy V8. A special GM pilot bearing (PN 12557583) is available, which compensates for the difference and allows the use of a standard-length transmission input shaft. McLeod offers a functionally similar bearing under its PN 1094-4. GM has an LS-type flywheel (PN 12561680) suitable for use with traditional four-speeds. This flywheel has an LS six-bolt metric mounting pattern and flywheel dowel-hole location. McLeod offers a special thick LS flywheel (PN 460535) that, combined with the extended pilot bearing, allow the transmission's relative location to remain in the same location, allowing the use of a GM factory or aftermarket traditional V8 bellhousing. Unlike the GM 'wheel, McLeod's version is dual-drilled for both the LS 10mm metric mounting bolts as well as the traditional 38-16 U.S. fasteners. (The metric bolt threads extend all the way to the top of the bolt hole, while the U.S. threads are recessed about 0.200 inch below the surface.) Note that some performance passenger-car LS engines use cranks that require eight- or even nine-bolt flywheels." https://www.hotrod.com/articles/legacy-manual-trans-behind-ls-style-block/

 

Did the NV4500 ever come behind an LS based engine? I don't know what size clutch it uses (I assume probably a 12") so a flywheel mentioned above probably won't work. I wound up getting one from around a 2000 truck with a 4.8 and a 5 speed. They had an offset flywheel that compensates for the shorter crank flange. Only the 4.8 trucks came with them though.

My '06 4.3 V6 with NV3500 is still throttle by cable (if I can ever get it running again). Lost spark/signal and its at a GM trained mechanic buddy of mine an he is having issues figuring it out as well.

[JCM 9,130]

First picture is my old 70 SS with a good friends Restored 1958 Corvette and another friends Restored 1967 Corvette 427 that received a NCRS  Top Flight Award in Carlisle PA meet in August of 1995.

[ebinmaine 67,421]

Something about a 427 Tri-power....

[JCM 9,130]

No Tri power on that one Eric, single 4 bbl =  RPO   L36   427  Hydraulic lifters   390 HP. I had the chance to drive that after resto. NICE. It does look like 2  4 barrels but I do not remember it having 2.

Edited December 5, 2020 by JCM

[ebinmaine 67,421]

9 minutes ago, JCM said:

No Tri power on that one Eric, single 4 bbl =  RPO   L36   427  Hydraulic lifters   390 HP. I had the chance to drive that after resto. NICE. It does look like 2  4 barrels but I do not remember it having 2.

 

 

I'm thinking the circled items are the vacuum valves to open the outside (2+2) barrels/carbs ..... No?

 

Sure does look like a carb colored item right at the back of the air cleaner close to the distributor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JCM 9,130]

I'm thinking when he bought this car it had the single round air cleaner and then when he decided to have NCRS judge it they may have found it needed the tri power set up and corrected it upon full restoration. I agree with the vaccum and air cleaner set up. This pic was taken around 1990. 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

4 minutes ago, JCM said:

I'm thinking when he bought this car it had the single round air cleaner and then when he decided to have NCRS judge it they may have found it needed the tri power set up and corrected it upon full restoration. I agree with the vaccum and air cleaner set up. This pic was taken around 1990. 

Think that engine'd fit a C-series chassis??

 

Wheelhorse C 4350. 

 

[JCM 9,130]

 HAHA    You would need wheelie bars for sure.     

[tom2p 2,394]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:35 PM, JCM said:

First picture is my old 70 SS with a good friends Restored 1958 Corvette and another friends Restored 1967 Corvette 427 that received a NCRS  Top Flight Award in Carlisle PA meet in August of 1995.

had a friend with a similar looking 66 or 67 Corvette - his was maroon in color and a 427 tri-power

 

a neighbor and owner of an area Esso / Exxon service station I worked at had a 60 Corvette conv he restored ... it was powder blue with white ... 283 3 speed ... can't recall a manual trans / shifter that shifted as easy as that car did - you could almost flick the shifter ball with the end of your finger to shift into a gear ... that Corvette was one of my fav cars of all time ;  not overly fast - just a blast to drive and simple (especially compared to the next generation) 
 

70 SS Chevelle was prob my fav muscle cars to drive ... great looking car inside and out - great feel and they actually handled decent for a car that size back in the day ...  I had two - both dark green ..  low/med horse big blocks with a 4 speed ... one with bench seat and the other with buckets, factory console and gauges, etc

 

[tom2p 2,394]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:09 AM, tom2p said:

neighbor replaced old rod with the wagon 

 

my neighbor traded the wagon for a Nova / Chevy II

 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

8 minutes ago, tom2p said:

my neighbor traded the wagon for a Nova / Chevy II

 

he's already ripping it apart - transforming it into a gasser with a tube axle 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by tom2p

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,330]

This is my hot rod. 505hp bone stock!! 
 

 

 

[cschannuth 3,816]

I’m a Ford guy but thought old mustangs were dime a dozen. One of my buddies had these two Torino‘s for years and when it was time to sell, he gave me first crack at them. He was asking a ridiculously low price so my wife actually agreed.  The fastback is a four-speed bench seat car with the 351 Cleveland cobra jet. The wagon also had a tamed version of the 351 Cleveland in it.  They were both too big and heavy to be very fast but they were tons of fun to drive.
 

I had them for about 15 years when somebody in one of my Torino forums saw some pictures of them both and had to have them. I really wasn’t interested in selling them so I shot him an outrageous number and the crazy dude said OK and so now they are his. About the same time my neighbor bought his wife a brand new Mustang GT with a six speed in it. She never got along with it so they decided to sell it a couple years later and buy her one with an automatic. I also sold the police interceptor that I bought for cheap and fixed up a bit. Between that and the Torino  money I was able to buy my neighbors pristine mustang GT with 4000 miles on it. Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by cschannuth

[ebinmaine 67,421]

Here's my father somewhere around 1965 with his ride...

@JCM

 

 

 

 

 

[JCM 9,130]

Boy does that bring back memories. Around 1976 a friend of mine had a 63 or 4  and he got inside into the passengers seat and I was going to follow him and was wondering what he was up to. He proceeded to drive from the passengers side roughly 10 miles and along the route he was waving, using his turn signals and taping on the roof with his right hand like he was listening to the radio and apparently had much practice doing this. He has long arms and legs so you do not see is left shoulder steering, had it down to a science. I don't think I had ever laughed that hard. Not sure if that was his USMC or Eagle Scout training that had something to do with it.   

[JCM 9,130]

Can't you all just picture that.     

[ebinmaine 67,421]

14 minutes ago, JCM said:

Eagle Scout

Stunt Driving Badge?

 

 

9 minutes ago, JCM said:

Can't you all just picture that.     

Yes. Yes I can....

 

I had some friends like that. 

[Pullstart 62,834]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Here's my father somewhere around 1965 with his ride...

@JCM

 

 

 

 

 

EB.  Any pictures of the milkman?  

 

All honesty, awesome picture!

[Pullstart 62,834]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:49 PM, stevebo said:

This is my hot rod. 505hp bone stock!! 
 

 

 

What a difference a set of wheels will do for a car...  I like the black ones the most, but sweet ride either way