ebinmaine 67,266 #1 Posted January 22, 2020 I was at a small engine repair shop today and asked them what they are doing for oil in the older equipment. They've been using this name brand of Kinetix. Online price $4.29 a quart, give or take. Heard of it? Thoughts? Comments? Anyone have any experience with it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stepney 2,325 #2 Posted January 22, 2020 I always run a high zinc oil for either diesel engines or Valvoline VR1 as I've said in the past .. never seen this name around. I'll have to do some homework. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #3 Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stepney said: I'll have to do some homework That would be helpful. Please keep us posted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman 205 #4 Posted January 22, 2020 Been using this oil for years now made for are small engines Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 55,065 #5 Posted January 22, 2020 9 hours ago, ebinmaine said: They've been using this name brand of Kinetix. Online price $4.29 a quart, give or take. Heard of it? Thoughts? Comments? Don't have any experience with this brand. My thought is that many businesses sell products that are labeled as being superior to other similar products because the profit margin is greater. While it probably is a perfectly good lubricant I doubt that it is any better than any other high zinc oil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #6 Posted January 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, 953 nut said: Don't have any experience with this brand. My thought is that many businesses sell products that are labeled as being superior to other similar products because the profit margin is greater. While it probably is a perfectly good lubricant I doubt that it is any better than any other high zinc oil. I'm not really so much concerned with it being better than another oil as long as it isn't worse. Perhaps I am missing something in my searching but I have not been able to find ANY high zinc content oils for less than $6 to $9 a quart. I can buy this stuff off the shelf at $5 per quart and as listed above, less expensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bottjernat1 2,190 #7 Posted January 22, 2020 I have heard it is good oil i have never tried it tho. Check out there web page lots of interesting stuff! https://www.kinetix-products.com/ I have been trying to find more info on the brand it is not easy to find info on this oil. LOL but everything i have found is good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,032 #8 Posted January 22, 2020 The API classification CH and SJ is what you need to look for. C = compression = diesel class H S = spark = gasoline class J Garry 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,302 #9 Posted January 22, 2020 Might be a good oil, at least they understand that zinc should be in it. The shop nearest my house sells a lot of mowers and carries the oil, just not my favorite place to do business. I see Amazon sells the oil and of course the price is double, but wait, the shipping is "free". Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of that oil. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #10 Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, lynnmor said: Might be a good oil, at least they understand that zinc should be in it. The shop nearest my house sells a lot of mowers and carries the oil, just not my favorite place to do business. I see Amazon sells the oil and of course the price is double, but wait, the shipping is "free". Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of that oil. As I get time in the next couple days I'm going to try to find the place that is least expensive to buy this stuff in HD 30 and 10w 30. I'd like to get a case of each. I'll try to remember to post my findings. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,302 #11 Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: As I get time in the next couple days I'm going to try to find the place that is least expensive to buy this stuff in HD 30 and 10w 30. I'd like to get a case of each. I'll try to remember to post my findings. How far is this one? OSGOOD'S OUTDOOR POWER & AUTO 330 BRIDGTON RD FRYEBURG ME 04037-1408 207-935-2121 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #12 Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, lynnmor said: How far is this one? OSGOOD'S OUTDOOR POWER & AUTO 330 BRIDGTON RD FRYEBURG ME 04037-1408 207-935-2121 Thanks for that listing. Good people as far as I know but they are 35 or 40 minutes the wrong direction from any place I ever travel. I have a place I can buy the stuff that is on the way home from work. I'm just really cheap and trying to get it for less money. Not that they are far off...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bds1984 1,429 #13 Posted January 23, 2020 I'd am curious to see what the VOA is on this stuff. My money is that this oil is playing marketing games more than anything. Too many people are hung up on zinc content, when in fact that too high of zinc is corrosive, and for many engines is not necessary. Any 40 grade oil will have higher zinc than 30 or 20, Eric, so if you want to spend less money, just run an API rated 10w40 gas or 5/15W40 diesel oil. For a Wheel Horse engine, it is insane to think these engines need some expensive oil with "additives" added. A good read for oil: https://pqia.org and www.bobistheoilguy.com are two sites with plenty of info. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,302 #14 Posted January 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, bds1984 said: For a Wheel Horse engine, it is insane to think these engines need some expensive oil with "additives" added. Some are just looking for oil that didn't have additives deleted for the sake of a catalytic converter. Zinc and phosphorus have been used as an anti-wear additive for three quarters of a century and it is insane to believe that removing it is something we want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bds1984 1,429 #15 Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, lynnmor said: Some are just looking for oil that didn't have additives deleted for the sake of a catalytic converter. Zinc and phosphorus have been used as an anti-wear additive for three quarters of a century and it is insane to believe that removing it is something we want. I never said zinc was removed, it hasn't. I balk at some boutique oils advertising their "content" of zinc to an otherwise mediocre oil that is being sold at an above merit price. I am willing to bet that most don't even know the ppm of zinc for oil now, thirty years ago, or sixty years ago; one would be surprised to find that for some grades it has actually increased. If zinc is such a concern to a low compression, low valve-spring pressure, low stress engine, where it is needed for engines with those characteristics, then use any 15W-40 diesel oil that is serviced out accordingly. Technologies improve over time, engines improve over time, and so does oil and it is insane to think that they haven't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #16 Posted January 24, 2020 I've been setting and reading about oils and additives off and on for a couple days. It seems that it's like many other subjects in that you can find info and build your own case on one side or the other very easily. I've found no research that suggests valve spring pressures in an older Kohler can be high enough to warrant extra protection. Cam/crank gear line up point however has potential to be an issue under load at full throttle. I don't know what the high point of zddp would be to create corrosion. It seems commonly accepted that 1200 ppm won't cause corrosion and will offer a decent level of protection. SF, SG, SH, SJ oils as stated above should all have that level. There are many people that offer non scientific evidence that "modern" oils are fine. Seems simply that their own or there father's, or their companies, engines didn't blow up so it CAN'T be a problem. What I don't find is a test that indisputably answers small engine concerns with actual real world numbers.... And likely never will. Would I shy away from using SL, SM, or SN oils? Yes. Why? Because the potential for a lack of protection is a real world possiblity in the newest oil types. And... Because the potential for GOOD from the other/older oils is there. Will I ever know if really matters? Probably not but I'd rather be safe than sorry and it doesn't seem to be a negative to use the SF, SG, SH, SJ oils. Will I try Kinetix? Sure. That's what the dealer of the Ariens snowblower sells..... Most important....... ? I've written it multiple times in multiple threads and here it is again: Change the oil when we should. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 55,065 #17 Posted January 24, 2020 If you want to think Zinc read this..Hemmings is the Bible for older vehicles and I trust what they publish. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,266 #18 Posted January 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, 953 nut said: If you want to think Zinc read this..Hemmings is the Bible for older vehicles and I trust what they publish. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/ Thanks for posting that Richard. That was one of the ones I read. I also have put a lot of trust in what Hemmings Motor News has for information. That article is one of the reasons I decided to switch to the Kinetix brand oil. There were at least a couple places where I read that small engines just don't produce enough pressure on the camshaft to have an issue in that area but the metal cam gear to the metal crank gear can do so. I figure ... Since this brand of oil is what the Ariens dealer is recommending in their new engines... And, it does have the high zinc and phosphorus content that we need in the older ones... And, it's reasonably priced... I'll give it a shot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tom2p 2,394 #19 Posted January 24, 2020 Valvoline VR1 Racing oil might be another option for those seeking high zinc / phosphorus oil VR1 Racing oil has a relatively high zinc / phosphorus content (and therefore not recommended for current cat equipped automobiles) high wear protection - and continues to protect well at elevated temperatures and available in higher viscosity including 20W50 https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq . 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,403 #20 Posted January 24, 2020 I'm going to stay out of this discussion, except to quote the wise words of one of our own, member Audioshot, from back in 2010: "Don't research too much about different oils. Your head will explode." 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 25,490 #21 Posted January 25, 2020 Regular (more frequent than recommended) oil changes with a name brand oil that meets Engine manufacturers specs... All that matters... 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,302 #22 Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said: Regular (more frequent than recommended) oil changes with a name brand oil that meets Engine manufacturers specs... All that matters... OK, I'll bite. A popular Kohler engine has in the manual: "Use only detergent type oils with API service MS classification." Where can I buy that? I didn't see the "All that matters" recommendation. I think that a healthy discussion of oil is a timely thing since oil has changed so much and some of those changes were not for the better. Kohler does market an oil that they do recommend and it isn't the same as off the shelf automobile oil. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,020 #23 Posted January 26, 2020 I’ve been using Rotella straight 30 for over 20 years. Haven’t blown anything up yet. No need to overthink oil. I have enough to worry about. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tom2p 2,394 #24 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) amount of ZDDP (zinc/phosphorus) has been reduced in recent motor oils - including SM and SN class oil - but other additives have been introduced or increased that could and should provide great wear protection one additive is MoDTC ... molybdenum dithiocarbamate this additive is a great friction reducer - but does not provide the high wear / sheer protection of zinc however - when used with small amounts of zinc - the wear / shear protection ability of MoDTC is increased significantly this is possibly and probably how / why recent SN oils with lower amounts of zinc are rated backward compatible with earlier motor oils with higher levels of zinc Edited January 28, 2020 by tom2p 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,032 #25 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/25/2020 at 8:40 AM, lynnmor said: OK, I'll bite. A popular Kohler engine has in the manual: "Use only detergent type oils with API service MS classification." Where can I buy that? A paper dated 1964 explains the ML (light) MM (moderate) and MS (severe) classifications. https://openprairie.sdstate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1188&context=agexperimentsta_circ Garry 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
