Plumbing & Heating

[squonk 41,124]

1 hour ago, dola12 said:

I’m more on the commercial side of things 

There we go! It's nice when you have something to attach a chainfall or hoist to that's not ready to come down on it's own! 

 

I used to have to horse a Genie lift into mechanical rooms all the time. The best was up the elevator, through a conference room, out an exterior door, across 200' of roof to remove a cooling tower fan motor. 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,641]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:49 PM, JCM said:

 

Those pictures ought to appear in every project’s related work spec sections where materials are specified to be installed in a “workmanlike fashion.”

That’s what that means and is supposed to look like, IMHO.

Outstanding work, @JCM

Whatever you’re charging is probably not enough. If you ever grow tired of working, a second career teaching at a technical school might be a great way to pass on those exemplary skills you have.  I wish I had a fraction of them.

Edited January 8, 2022 by EB-80/8inPA

[JCM 9,168]

 Thank you for your kind words @EB-80/8inPA . Your are correct about the hourly rate. I am finding out that I am off around 25 to 50 dollars shy of the average. But you know, I have good people for customers and some as long as I have been in business, 35 years. They have been very good to me over the years and some even longer than 35 years and I try to the best of my ability to pay them back in some small way for the work they have trusted me to do for them. I would rather do it this way than continually searching for new customers all the time because they thought I charged them to much. I know it's hard to please everyone, I just try to be fair. Funny you mentioned trade school. I recently was offered a shot at teaching Plumbing Trade School and the $ was more than I am doing now. Just don't think at my age I could handle all that goes with it. The $ sure made me pause and think about it. Seems to be a shortage of qualified candidates.  Thanks again  

[Handy Don 12,232]

6 hours ago, JCM said:

I recently was offered a shot at teaching Plumbing Trade School

Keep turning it over in your mind for a while. If some parts don't work for you consider negotiating a reduction or assist on that stuff. I learned from my Dad that asking politely is hardly ever wrong and often it leads to a useful compromise. Having met you, I suspect you might enjoy teaching once you get used to the idea that students need to be shown as well as taught.

[Pullstart 62,902]

Not a plunge job, but lots going on in here.  I wish I took a before picture.  Their 50 gallon power vent wasn’t enough for a family of 6, even with wood boiler heat.  The flat plate heat exchanger that was assisting the water heater was in a T loop from the main boiler loop, but no circ. pump sending hot water that way.  In turn, it seemed to run constantly and never gain anything from being in the loop.  Or, outside of the loop.

 

The 3/4” piping in my system and others has done a great job.  I used 3/4” and it’ll work out just fine.  The side arms I built myself and all is well.  No leaks there!  I accidentally melted the mixing valve guts taking it apart so I’ll finish the job tomorrow before the big toilet bowl.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,902]

I forgot to add, the 80 gallon electric is simply designed as a storage tank in the system.  It just happened to be available.  The 80 gallon power vent will be the main source of hot water in the summer.  Winter boiler usage will warm both tanks and the storage will d7mp into the primary.  The mixing valve is spanned between the storage tank’s inlet and the primary tank’s outlet.  

[squonk 41,124]

Just curious Kevin, Why not a tankless for hot water  with a small electric wh and recirc pump for the baths and let the wood boiler handle the heat? 

Edited February 12, 2022 by squonk

[Pullstart 62,902]

6 minutes ago, squonk said:

Just curious Kevin, Why not a tankless for hot water  with a small electric wh and recirc pump for the baths and let the wood boiler handle the heat? 

They have a pretty huge supply of wood.  Lots of dead forest in their name.  I’m not a huge tankless advocate, maybe being affiliated with one of the largest tank type water heater manufacturers (wife works there, I used to).  You can get a Bradford White tankless, but I don’t know where they are made.  These ones?  Right down the street.  

[Pullstart 62,902]

A job well done, is always customer’s final say.  Water always takes the path of least resistance.  I gave it one option.  The in-floor loop has a selector valve to bypass when there is no call for heat.
 

“I think this system is more efficient with how you did it.   My house is 3 -5 degrees higher than all winter.  If it holds it will be great.  The floor is actually hot to the touch now.”

[WHX?? 48,821]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:09 PM, Pullstart said:

 It just happened to be available.

Just happened to fall off the truck you mean and she got it out in her lunch bucket.... 

 

On 2/12/2022 at 4:29 PM, Pullstart said:

I’m not a huge tankless advocate,

I'm not either but the plungers around here favor them. We use them for in floor work and when they work they are great but when they do not it's a lot of . Not to mention all that stuff crammed into a box the size of a small suitcase!. 

 

Sure glad I don't have to feed that 80 with propane & bet you don't either! 

 

Way back when a buddy just had a 40 gallon trying to fill a mega gallon garden tub. I piped in another forty gas with just the pilot running to temper the water and that did the trick.

 

I sure do love my BW Kev. All my problems with the AO junk went away.  How did @PeacemakerJack ever make out with that monster you got him? 

[WHX?? 48,821]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:17 PM, JCM said:

had very good luck with Watts water feeder/ back flow preventers

Same here Plunge.... 'cept for the price of them lately! 

[Pullstart 62,902]

14 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Just happened to fall off the truck you mean and she got it out in her lunch bucket.... 

 

So funny Uncle Jim!  We do pay for them, just less than wholesale is all.

 

14 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Sure glad I don't have to feed that 80 with propane & bet you don't either! 

80 now, or 50 + a 30 fill up later   I think his old setup was burning energy all over.  His floors weren’t hot, barely warm, his water heater practically never shut off, and they have plenty of wood and manpower to haul it.  For the sake of gas savings all winter, he will easily be able to afford it in the summer alone.  He’s well over 1/4 mile off the road, likely won’t ever convert to natural gas.

 

14 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Way back when a buddy just had a 40 gallon trying to fill a mega gallon garden tub. I piped in another forty gas with just the pilot running to temper the water and that did the trick.

Manufacturers really sell first hour delivery.  A 40 gallon should be able to deliver we’ll say 75-80 gallons of hot water in an hour.  That’s from satisfied t-stat, to a draw until the t-stat turns on, to another draw when it satisfies, repeat until about 50-55 minutes goes, then draw full until 60 minutes is up or it runs out of temp I think.  That doesn’t mean a 40 gallon tank can fill up a 90 gallon tub in one happy draw while the Mrs. is grabbing her wine.  When room allows, having that buffer pre-tank really helps.  
 

same thing we have going here…  The one on the right.. I built that one myself in 2006 or so.

 

[squonk 41,124]

Hang a tankless on the wall and you got room to store a couple of tractors!  Just sayin! 

[squonk 41,124]

When I started at the hospital we had 2 20,000 gal hot water tanks. Heat exchangers built in fed by low pressure steam. When the hospital added a new bldg, they were torn out and replaced by 2 tankless steam fired industrial water heaters. Each one was about the size of a 60 gal upright air compressor. No storage needed and never ran out of hot water even with all the dialysis machines running. We had so much extra room with the tanks gone we installed about 10 shelving units for plumbing storage

[WHX?? 48,821]

3 hours ago, Pullstart said:

That’s from satisfied t-stat, to a draw until the t-stat turns on, t

That's  what I like about mine. I barely get gallon maybe 1 1/2 and the stat is turning her on. That why the old one was a POS ... it let too much cold in before kicking on cooling the tank down too much and then condensation then rust. It did it no matter the satisfied setting. Whatever gas valve BW is using don't let them change! 

[squonk 41,124]

5 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Same here Plunge.... 'cept for the price of them lately! 

Price up some stainless steel seats for a 6" backflow preventer!  $$$$$ 

 

Then have A cross country meet outside of the school and have everyone need to use the bathroom when you got the building water supply shutdown. 

[Pullstart 62,902]

4 hours ago, squonk said:

Hang a tankless on the wall and you got room to store a couple of tractors!  Just sayin! 

And lose the ability for alternative heat, like the wood boiler, solar if ever I chose, etc.  plus in a residential application, upgrade gas pipe sizing or pressures, require proprietary venting in many applications… etc.

[squonk 41,124]

Keep the wood boiler for heat. Tankless for endless hot water for bathing/laundry. And they aren't any more complicated than a hot water condensing boiler. Just a small package. I've worked on Lochinvar, Fulton and Aerco condensing boilers and Rinnai, A.O.Smith, and Navien tankless. Not much difference.

[JCM 9,168]

This is a follow up of page # 1 post #19 on installing the indirect water heater and taking the electric water heater off line.This past January the electric rates went up and added 40 to 50 dollars to the monthly bill. We have been using the electric heater since 2010 and it was time to replace before an issue with that. Enjoying a lot more hot water now than we ever had and not have to wait for recovery at times. This replacement was long overdue and I am sure some of you tradesmen will agree, our homes are the last to do. I find after all your customers are satisfied I just don't feel like doing this on a weekend. It's tractor time.