stevasaurus 22,866 #51 Posted January 6, 2020 @adsm08 not really a fancy math thing, but it is the way Wheel Horse showed the difference in their transmissions through the years. It is all about where the brake drum sits on what shaft. The 3 speeds had the brake drum sit on the 11/44 tooth gear...ie...#5025. The 4 speeds moved the brake drum to the cluster gear shaft...ie...71 Workhorse "800"...#5080 traans. The 6 speeds and 8 speeds are the same way. The 6 speed had the brake drum on the 11/44 tooth gear (mushroom)...ie...#5060. The 8 speeds have the brake drum on the cluster gear shaft...#5091. The statement you quoted states the 3 and 4 speeds are all 4 pinion with 1" axles (except the bevel gears trans)...but they do make an 8 speed with 4 pinions and 1" axles...#5086. Hope that helps a little. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #52 Posted January 6, 2020 With this chart, you can identify most transmissions from the outside. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #53 Posted January 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, stevasaurus said: With this chart, you can identify most transmissions from the outside. Steve, where would that casting number be located? I have three transmissions that are all 8 speeds but I don't know what numbers they are... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #54 Posted January 6, 2020 Casting numbers will not tell you much...neither will case half numbers. It's all about where the brake drum is mounted and if you have the hi/low range or not. Some axle lengths will help, but I do not have all of those yet. Eric, check out the chart, if you have 3 transmissions and the brake drum is on the cluster gear shaft...then you can have either 8 or 10 pinions. You have to go inside and count the bolts in the differential housing...5 bolts is 10 pinion...4 bolts is 8 pinion. If the brake drum is on the 11/44 you have either the #5060 or the #5071 both are 10 pinion LS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #55 Posted January 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, stevasaurus said: Casting numbers will not tell you much...neither will case half numbers. It's all about where the brake drum is mounted and if you have the hi/low range or not. Some axle lengths will help, but I do not have all of those yet. Okay gotcha. So realistically, the only way to tell which differential you have is to physically open it up and count the pinions... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 49,168 #56 Posted January 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: I have three transmissions that are all 8 speeds but I don't know what numbers they are... or even where they are at! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #57 Posted January 6, 2020 You do not have to count the pinions...you can count the bolts holding the housing together. You do have to open the case. Which shaft is the brake drum on??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #58 Posted January 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, WHX24 said: I cannot confirm or deny that statement Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #59 Posted January 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, stevasaurus said: You do not have to count the pinions...you can count the bolts holding the housing together. You do have to open the case. Which shaft is the brake drum on??? All three of them have the brake drum on the shaft right beside the axle housing which I believe is the cluster gear shaft so all three of them should be 8 speeds. Reason I ask is I need a transmission to choose for Colossus and if one of those would have a chance of being limited slip I would open it up, first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #60 Posted January 6, 2020 Eric, the 11/44 is the hole next or closest to the axle housing. All 3 of your transmissions are 10 pinion Limited Slip...6 speeds. Do you have the 1" extension on the fill plug hole, as shown in picture 1?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #61 Posted January 6, 2020 In the picture above, you can see the cluster gear shaft is the next hole to the front of the transmission. If that shaft is longer then the 11/44, that is where the brake drum is. This is the 5091 8 speed. See the cluster gear shaft is longer then the 11/44. The open hole is where the cluster gear shaft come out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #62 Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, stevasaurus said: Eric, the 11/44 is the hole next or closest to the axle housing. All 3 of your transmissions are 10 pinion Limited Slip. Do you have the 1" extension on the fill plug hole, as shown in picture 1?? .Man I am just not even sure. I don't think any one of the three has that filler extension, no. I must be confusing the location of those. I'm not home to look at them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #63 Posted January 6, 2020 Eric...click your heels together 3 times and say..."There is no place like home." The pictures and the chart should narrow it down...can't wait to see some pictures of what you have there. If the brake drum is on the cluster gear shaft, you may be able to look down the dip stick hole, or the seat/fender holes and try to count bolts. You can see the difference between the 5 and 4 bolt patterns in the pictures above. I'm going to mix another cocktail and wait for you to get home. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #64 Posted January 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, stevasaurus said: The open hole above is the cluster shaft hole...if the brake drum mounts there, it is an 8 speed...but it could have 8 or 10 pinions Okay that's definitely where all three of them are. I was clearly mis remembering... I couldn't get pics because the light was very low. But I did compare the three of them to the pictures above and also to a known 3 speed and THAT has the brake drum next to the axle. So therein lies the question... I guess I just need to pop each one of them open and see if any of them are limited slip. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #65 Posted January 6, 2020 Unless you can look down inside from the places listed. You might try holding an axle and spinning the other one and see if they both go the same way, but they can also act like a regular differential. Without knowing how clean the inside is, I would not put much money on what you found. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,866 #66 Posted January 6, 2020 Eric, I would open them all up at the same time. You just have to get the left (or brake shaft side) off to see what you have. You may even have one of those 8 speeds that used the needle bearing for the lack of the #1533 ball bearing. I envy you having a nice winter and 3 transmissions to explore! Take good pictures, measurements of axles, whether you have the one or two piece mushroom gears, what your side plates are made of (if 10 pinion) (steel or aluminum). With what you may have, I would want to know the case half numbers and casting numbers if you have them. A casting number will tell you the year or close to when they used the half...ie...no way they used a half that was made in 78 in 77...but they could have used it in 79 or 80. Start a thread with pictures of all 3 transmissions. Let @pullstart give them a name....let's see...Rue Paul would be #1 (transmissions)...Geraldine might be 2nd. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 63,096 #67 Posted January 6, 2020 A Jenner might be in the runnings... 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #68 Posted January 6, 2020 @stevasaurus I'll be happy to do that. Might be a few weeks before I get to it. I want to put some gt14 axles that I got from @19richie66 into whatever goes in Colossus. The others will just be for future projects. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
19richie66 17,522 #69 Posted January 6, 2020 At least with them opened up next to each other you would have a reference to look at while doing one...... if they are the same. Getting ready to open up and widen an Xi Eaton here soon myself. A lot less parts in them though. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lagersolut 678 #70 Posted January 6, 2020 I'm confused on the 6 speeds, if there is no hi lo range how are they 6 speeds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #71 Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, Lagersolut said: I'm confused on the 6 speeds, if there is no hi lo range how are they 6 speeds There is high and low on a 6 speed and an 8 speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lagersolut 678 #72 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, ebinmaine said: There is high and low on a 6 speed and an 8 speed. So the 6 is 2 forward and reverse and the 8's are 3 forward and reverse I'm not familiar with the 6 speeds at all . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,370 #73 Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, Lagersolut said: So the 6 is 2 forward and reverse and the 8's are 3 forward and reverse I'm not familiar with the 6 speeds at all . The difference between them is a little bit confusing. It's actually MARKETING. A 6-speed has three forward gears and one reverse, x 2. The 8-speed is set up exactly the same way. The physical difference between the two is the location of the brake drum. Someone else may be able to answer exactly why they changed the number from 6 to 8 but I believe it was simply to differentiate between the two styles of transmission. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,881 #74 Posted January 7, 2020 Same basic unit different marketing. Is reverse a speed 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lagersolut 678 #75 Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks - I learned something today....now I get it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
