Door building 101

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

 So the other day I opened my back door only to find out the metal clad on the outside fell off. That's when I Took my finger to touch it and pushed it  all the way through. Yikes!  Called  Pella to get just a replacement slab with glass and no hardware.l  was told it was $2000. Yikes again! So I'm going to pick up lumber next week to build another door to fit the hardware and the glass. This Otto be a fun but challenging  project. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by The Tool Crib

[ebinmaine 67,309]

 

[tom2p 2,394]

ouch - pella door did that ?

 

we have two similar wood/clad exterior doors with full length glass .. forget the manufacturer ... might be Semco ... still look good though after 20 or so years 

 

wanted to get Andersen  but too much $$$ - and the brand (Semco ?) we got was recommended as a good value 

our living room / dining room windows are wood Andersen sliders ...  early 50's ...  still going strong  ( need paint though )

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by tom2p

[ZXT 2,401]

I'll be following this! Certainly don't think a $2000 door should've done that. Was the wood not treated?

[MikMacMike 479]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I hope your sharing yer beer n popcorn Mr Ebinmaine, heheheh.

[Stormin 9,981]

Don't like the idea of metal cladding over wood. Looks like moisture got behind it.

$2,000 + £1,535.  I think I'd be making my own as well at that price and I'm no joiner.

[ebinmaine 67,309]

4 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

I hope your sharing yer beer n popcorn Mr Ebinmaine, heheheh.

Absolutely

[Achto 27,510]

[formariz 11,987]

Really surprised a Pella failed like that. Nevertheless that type of system is indeed prone to problems if moisture gets under cladding.Have built a "few" dozen doors in my time. Biggest challenge is always making sure they are not twisted. Properly dried , straight grained materials and waterproof glues on exterior doors, always a must. I use mortise and tenon for the joints always and Resorcinol for exterior doors.  As for materials for exterior doors I use moisture and insect resistant woods. Mostly Mahoghany or Sapelle but that also depends on the finish desired. Very important also is that entire door is properly sealed . On a glass door like yours the biggest challenge is to prevent water from penetrating between glass and bottom rail. In addition to specialized gasketing in that area I usually design them so the molding machined on rail acts as a "ramp" to shed any water that falls on it. A square edge there is not recommended.

[tom2p 2,394]

also surprised a pella door failed like that 

 

in some circles - Pella is considered the 'Cadillac' - and a step above others including Andersen (or Marvin or Peachtree etc)

 

this display does not agree with those opinions ... maybe a Cadillac Cimmaron ... lol

 

of course now I'm paranoid about our similar doors - but both appear to be ok  

 

was not a big fan of the raised frame / threshold on the Semco doors - but maybe that's not a bad thing 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

5 hours ago, Stormin said:

Don't like the idea of metal cladding over wood. Looks like moisture got behind it.

$2,000 + £1,535.  I think I'd be making my own as well at that price and I'm no joiner.

sure beats painting 

 

one of the better options if you want a (real) wood door with maintenance free exterior 

 

and in some areas - wood exterior door won't go long 

[tom2p 2,394]

13 hours ago, The Tool Crib said:

 So the other day I opened my back door only to find out the metal clad on the outside fell off. That's when I Took my finger to touch it and pushed it  all the way through. Yikes!  Called  Pella to get just a replacement slab with glass and no hardware.l  was told it was $2000. Yikes again! So I'm going to pick up lumber next week to build another door to fit the hardware and the glass. This Otto be a fun but challenging  project. 

does the door open to a deck ?

 

overhang ?  ( if so - does it leak water down on the door ? )

 

 

appears the exterior (deck or whatever) is the same height as  interior or close ... does water pond outside the door ?  ...  a gradual slope / fall might help (so water will run away from door) 

 

can't determine the height of the threshold ... is there a way to raise the threshold slightly ?

 

not at this point probably ... without some major surgery ... 

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

Yeah there is an excessive amount of water in that area. I know now what I have to do to make it right. And it does swing 

do the inside. My plans are to put a roof over the porch to fix this problem but first I have to repair and build a new door.The

Pella window and door package I purchased when I built the house is the architect series.

[tom2p 2,394]

1 hour ago, The Tool Crib said:

Yeah there is an excessive amount of water in that area. I know now what I have to do to make it right. And it does swing 

do the inside. My plans are to put a roof over the porch to fix this problem but first I have to repair and build a new door.The

Pella window and door package I purchased when I built the house is the architect series.

you could contact them (again)

 

explain you are a wheel horse owner - and then they might realize you expect long dependable life and service ... yeah ... something like that 

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

5 hours ago, formariz said:

Really surprised a Pella failed like that. Nevertheless that type of system is indeed prone to problems if moisture gets under cladding.Have built a "few" dozen doors in my time. Biggest challenge is always making sure they are not twisted. Properly dried , straight grained materials and waterproof glues on exterior doors, always a must. I use mortise and tenon for the joints always and Resorcinol for exterior doors.  As for materials for exterior doors I use moisture and insect resistant woods. Mostly Mahoghany or Sapelle but that also depends on the finish desired. Very important also is that entire door is properly sealed . On a glass door like yours the biggest challenge is to prevent water from penetrating between glass and bottom rail. In addition to specialized gasketing in that area I usually design them so the molding machined on rail acts as a "ramp" to shed any water that falls on it. A square edge there is not recommended.

What is another good wood to use . I'm planning on putting the clad back on the outside and the inside will get painted. I would hate to cover mahogany in such fashion. We have a lumber and wood supplier here in Nashville that has several species to choose from.

[WHX?? 48,796]

I woulda thought an exterior door like that would have been filled with urethane foam?? 

[rmaynard 15,428]

Pella doors used to be the Cadillac of doors until they were bought out by Larson. In any case, even a Cadillac door will succumb to constant water. Looks like the outside decking is level with the sub-floor of the house. That's a recipe for water damage. Any door should be at least 1" (I always made mine 1-1/2") above the decking. I'm going to guess that not only do you need a new door, but some new sub-floor under it, and possibly a portion of the rim joist and floor joists below. 

 

Unless you have the ability to fabricate a new door correctly, I would opt for a whole new door, including the frame. It will cost less than just the replacement slab from Pella. Home Depot has a complete pre-hung glass door for under $500.00

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Steves-Sons-36-in-x-80-in-Premium-Full-Lite-Primed-White-Fiberglass-Prehung-Front-Door-FGFL-PR-36-4LI/205540043

[formariz 11,987]

3 hours ago, The Tool Crib said:

What is another good wood to use . I'm planning on putting the clad back on the outside and the inside will get painted. I would hate to cover mahogany in such fashion. We have a lumber and wood supplier here in Nashville that has several species to choose from.

There is no better wood for an exterior door than any wood in the Mahogany family. Honduras mahogany (one of the few true mahoganies) is actually the best one. That is so because of its resistance to moisture, dimensional stability and overall workability characteristics. It also takes a finish extremely well. It seems a shame to paint it or cover it with something else but once past that hurdle there just isn't anything better. Aside from anything in that family next I would go with White Oak .

I always have been reluctant of applying different finishes on the two sides of a door or any wood for that matter. It creates instability in the wood and it is a major cause of warping. Also the two sides should be  finished at the same time not on different days. The cladding is of  a particular concern since it traps moisture and heat on that side, again creating instability.

If it is something one is not used to building, it may be better to buy a composite door made already for exterior use. It does not absorb any moisture and there isn't anything to rot in it unless it is continuously submerged in water. They are not expensive like what was quoted to you by Pella. Using common sense, once one buys the proper materials, prepares materials, fabricates door, finishes it and hangs it, it is always less expensive buying a commercially made slab. That of course does not take into account the pride factor which always wins out around here.

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

2 hours ago, formariz said:

There is no better wood for an exterior door than any wood in the Mahogany family. Honduras mahogany (one of the few true mahoganies) is actually the best one. That is so because of its resistance to moisture, dimensional stability and overall workability characteristics. It also takes a finish extremely well. It seems a shame to paint it or cover it with something else but once past that hurdle there just isn't anything better. Aside from anything in that family next I would go with White Oak .

I always have been reluctant of applying different finishes on the two sides of a door or any wood for that matter. It creates instability in the wood and it is a major cause of warping. Also the two sides should be  finished at the same time not on different days. The cladding is of  a particular concern since it traps moisture and heat on that side, again creating instability.

If it is something one is not used to building, it may be better to buy a composite door made already for exterior use. It does not absorb any moisture and there isn't anything to rot in it unless it is continuously submerged in water. They are not expensive like what was quoted to you by Pella. Using common sense, once one buys the proper materials, prepares materials, fabricates door, finishes it and hangs it, it is always less expensive buying a commercially made slab. That of course does not take into account the pride factor which always wins out around here.

I did do some more checking today on some other alternatives and found a fiberglass door with the same full glass as what I have on this Pella door. It's a shame that this had to happen but it does not shy  me away from the quality that goes into these products. The rest of the windows and doors throughout the house are in excellent shape. For some reason this one just took a pounding. I think for the timeframe that I have to get this done it is best that I buy a complete hung door and just replace it. Although I was looking forward to the challenge of this build there will be other things such as the kitchen cabinets coming up.

Thanx!

[formariz 11,987]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:44 PM, The Tool Crib said:

I did do some more checking today on some other alternatives and found a fiberglass door with the same full glass as what I have on this Pella door. It's a shame that this had to happen but it does not shy  me away from the quality that goes into these products. The rest of the windows and doors throughout the house are in excellent shape. For some reason this one just took a pounding. I think for the timeframe that I have to get this done it is best that I buy a complete hung door and just replace it. Although I was looking forward to the challenge of this build there will be other things such as the kitchen cabinets coming up.

Thanx!

You made the right decision on this one. It will be done in a more timely fashion buying one , and prevent a lot of frustration. You are also right about Pellas"s quality. I have over $25,000.00 worth of Pella windows in the house for quite a few years now. I have installed and worked with many brands but I believe that they are truly one of the best out there. I think your door was just subjected to constant conditions for which it was not designed hence its failure.

[Pullstart 62,804]

Would it be of any value to create a weep hole or four into the bottom of the door in case water were to penetrate the seal between the glass and the metal clad?  

[formariz 11,987]

11 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Would it be of any value to create a weep hole or four into the bottom of the door in case water were to penetrate the seal between the glass and the metal clad?  

Unfortunately it would not help much. Bottom of such door is usually not clad but it has exposed wood. Any water penetrating through top if excessive will come out through bottom. At that point however the damage is already done since the wood absorbs the moisture and it does not dry.If it happens only occasionally it may be OK but I suspect that this one had not only exposure through the top but also through bottom. That is why it is so important to seal all parts of doors and windows specifically the bottom and the top. Also ignored on that system is the fact that wood needs to move and breathe. Had not been for the cladding and assuming door had regular maintenance it would still be healthy today.

[Handy Don 12,163]

4 minutes ago, PipsiNiws said:

Wouldn't it be easier to make a new custom door?

Did you realize you are responding to a two-year-old thread?

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Did you realize you are responding to a two-year-old thread?

and lm still not done!!

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,791]

Happens to me all the time! Ya click that "next unread topic" and find somethin' interesting an just dive in!