Remodel question...Is this a load bearing wall?

[82Caddy 851]

So this house my wife and I are buying has this wall in the way from making the kitchen/dining/living room an open concept thing. She really wants this wall down with a different island. I have a hard time committing to a new island and counter top not knowing if this wall can come down or not.

 

I've tried contacting the builder and local rep for the company with no response (called and was told they'd call me back, as well as no response from email) over the past 2 weeks.  I have the build plans for the house, I just don't know what the stuff really means.  It's a modular home if that matters.

 

Next best option, ask people smarter then me on the internet!

 

This is the wall in question:

 

 

 

Floor plan:

 

 

Is that load bearing?  Is that what those "X" are telling me?   The floor joists run from top to bottom in the floor plan picture.

 

I'm open to any ideas at this point.

 

 

[953 nut 57,916]

4 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

It's a modular home if that matters

  Being a modular home I suspect it is load bearing. They tend to use smaller framing members than conventional constructiin and it is likely the wall was needed to suport the roof. Unless an engineer from the manyfacturer put it in writing I wouldn't remove that wall.

[82Caddy 851]

Just now, 953 nut said:

  Being a modular home I suspect it is load bearing. They tend to use smaller framing members than conventional constructiin and it is likely the wall was needed to suport the roof. Unless an engineer from the manyfacturer put it in writing I wouldn't remove that wall.

 

I can't get the manufacturer to respond and that'd solve all the problems.  If it is load bearing we'll have to find something else to do then.  Maybe a big beam or something across the span of the house.

 

 

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,338]

 By the looks of the picture the roof seems to be probably a 412 pitch .  I would almost say for sure that that is definitely support in the center. So yes that is probably a loadbearing wall . 

 Were you planning on removing it ?

[The Tuul Crib 7,338]

41 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

  Being a modular home I suspect it is load bearing. They tend to use smaller framing members than conventional constructiin and it is likely the wall was needed to suport the roof. Unless an engineer from the manyfacturer put it in writing I wouldn't remove that wall.

[WHX?? 50,736]

Lets see if our builder @PeacemakerJack can help out. What's under that wall to the basement/foundation/crawlspace?? That might be a clue. Any clues in the attic if any? 

Also look to see what's under the wall by the tub to see what's there for support. That may be another support for the centerline span. 

Even if it is load bearing There probably more ways then one to resupport it. 

[WHX?? 50,736]

58 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

Is that what those "X" are telling me

Usually on a plan thicker heavy lines are used to indicate load bearing. 

[82Caddy 851]

10 minutes ago, The Tool Crib said:

 By the looks of the picture the roof seems to be probably a 412 pitch .  I would almost say for sure that that is definitely support in the center. So yes that is probably a loadbearing wall . 

 Were you planning on removing it ?

 

My wife would like it removed to open the space up and create one big open room and to change the island shape slightly with new counter tops.  I believe the roof is a 5/12 pitch at least that's what the home inspector said it was.

 

4 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Lets see if our builder @PeacemakerJack can help out. What's under that wall to the basement/foundation/crawlspace?? That might be a clue. Any clues in the attic if any? 

Also look to see what's under the wall by the tub to see what's there for support. That may be another support for the centerline span. 

Even if it is load bearing There probably more ways then one to resupport it. 

 

Here is the basement plans:

 

 

It's not exactly like that but close enough to get the idea of what it's like.  The toilet isn't where the drawing says it is (now it's in the linen closet) and the sauna/shower areas are mirror images of each other toward the center line.  The basement remodel is a project and problem for another day with getting rid of that giant Jacuzzi tub.

 

No attic space above that area.  There is a sealed attic above the bedrooms/bathrooms (behind the other green wall) that I haven't ventured into.

[rmaynard 15,918]

If your roof is constructed with factory-made trusses, and the rest of the room is clear span, then I would assume that the wall is not load-bearing. I think that the small sections of wall that tie into the ceiling are only for lateral support of the wall.

[formariz 11,994]

Yes I believe that is a load bearing wall. As @953 nut said it is supporting that long roof span.

As I interpret it in the basement there is a wall that runs directly under ridge line as indicated. That is a load bearing wall. On the floor above in question such ridge line is indicated on drawing by dotted line. The wall in qustion straddles the bottom bearing wall at a right angle being centered directly over that wall and ridge line. That way it supports the long ridge above from sagging and allows an open floor plan. The X's on plan denote columns.they probably are a manufactured structural columns inside wall.

[wallfish 17,495]

If it is load bearing, open that center all the way down to achieve more open feel. Unless you were planning to move the sink a couple of columns there won't be as bad? That "window" at the top makes no sense anyway except for a knick knack shelf so drop that opening all the way down if the support needs to stay.

[82Caddy 851]

5 minutes ago, wallfish said:

If it is load bearing, open that center all the way down to achieve more open feel. Unless you were planning to move the sink a couple of columns there won't be as bad? That "window" at the top makes no sense anyway except for a knick knack shelf so drop that opening all the way down if the support needs to stay.

 

That's an idea.  I'm trying to convince her to consider other options.  Now shes talking about a full length beam across the house to support the roof if necessary. 

[WHX?? 50,736]

37 minutes ago, wallfish said:

at the top makes no sense anyway except for a knick knack shelf to put all your  collectables on...

Right …… like she is gonna let you do that! 

 

33 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

shes talking about a full length beam across the house to support the roof

Maybe get her a nail apron for Christmas and have her let you know when it's done! 

[82Caddy 851]

4 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Maybe get her a nail apron for Christmas and have her let you know when it's done! 

 

We had that discussion last night when she wanted to how new trim would be installed.  Apparently nails was the wrong answer 

[wallfish 17,495]

1 hour ago, formariz said:

The X's on plan denote columns.they probably are a manufactured structural columns inside wall.

Which may be able to go smaller with the use of steel columns. My guess too is they're engineered wood columns now.

Snow load on a roof is a huge consideration when it comes to building code for certain areas of the country. MN is one of them

 

37 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

I'm trying to convince her to consider other options

Stripper poles? Keep your dukes up when suggesting this one! Or, just suggest poles and use brass when they go in.

Once you suggest enough ridiculous stuff, the common sense stuff always sounds much better

[WHX?? 50,736]

How do you know what a stripper pole looks like 'fish? 

[Stormin 9,983]

5 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

How do you know what a stripper pole looks like 'fish? 

 

He is ex-navy after all.

[wallfish 17,495]

11 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

How do you know what a stripper pole looks like 'fish? 

Our knitting club clubhouse is a converted strip joint. They're still there for roof support and work perfect for it BTW

[CCW 1,334]

I am agreeing with Maynard above.  It appears the gables for the roof are at the left and right ends?  You say the floor joist run from top to bottom of the floor plan.  If you can see inside the basement ceiling you should be able to see which walls support the joists mid-span.  From what I can see this is a single story home and if you have factory built trusses in the attic they are carrying the load of the roof.  Looking at the plans the wall appears to be running parallel to the floor joist and the roof trusses.  If this wall is parallel then my guess is it does not carry any load.  Also the window at the top is a big give away. If anything is load carrying it would be the two ends and that makes little structural sense.  You could easily remove the wall from the bottom of the window to the countertop and leave the posts if you like.  If you cannot contact the company then I would suggest speaking to a local contractor if you know any.  A town engineer of building inspector might also be able to give you a good answer.  Even a good lumber yard.  Not Home Depot.  Keep in mind that all of our answers are from non-professional builders.

[rayshorses 102]

The basement plan shows no support under the lateral wall ,so it implies that it is not load bearing. It would not be structurally sound to let the floor joists support the load. All of the weight would be on the two columns that reach the ceiling, but if you follow them down to the basement , there is nothing under there to support the columns . When i was in the building business , we used vaulted trusses to create the sloped ceilings in the kitchen and living rooms. To break up the space ,we built a tower between the kitchen and living room . it was not load bearing. The modular houses we sometimes did had kicker walls over the ceilings which supported the roof. They directed the load back toward the center , down the middle where the two half met and then down to the basement where there were lolly columns. Your basement plan has a dotted line across which would imply that is where the two boxes are joined , but i am not seeing where any support could be for the rook. Does the whole house have vaulted ceilings or is it only in the kitchen / living room? I'm thinking they used a scissor or vaulted truss . It is the cheapest fastest strongest way and that is what modular is all about. 

The only way to know for sure is to cut an opening in the ceiling and look at the frame of the house. Worst case is you'll have to redo the ceiling.

[ACman 7,630]

I guess I’ll add my  ..... being a former HVAC , plumber and had building license your biggest clue should be in the basement as others have suggested. If that’s a load bearing wall the joist directly underneath that small wall should either be doubled or ladder between two joist to carry the load as indicated by the red lines from basement wall to basement wall . This should be the same under the opposite green wall also . Otherwise from your basement plan those columns should supported directly underneath with a wall or post to your basement floor with footers under them at least that’s what the codes would read here in Michigan. Without being there in person to see I’d go to your local supply house/lumberyard not Home Depot and have them recommend a reputable  builder to check it out . 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by ACman

[953 nut 57,916]

3 hours ago, CCW said:

if you have factory built trusses in the attic they are carrying the load of the roof.

This is a factory built house that was delivered on two trailers. The roof members connect once it is on the foundation.

Take a look at what @ACman posted above, the dashed line is where the two join togather

[WHX?? 50,736]

Beg to differ Richard .. that is a modular home not a double wide. Yes it was factory built but not trucked in on two trailers as double wides are. Big difference here double wides can be flopped right on the ground on a slab & blocks whereas modulars needs a foundation. Modulars are brought in in sections, assembled then finnished.  Very seldom modulars will have a belly pan like doubles. A modular will not have a steel frame under it like a double wide. A double wide will need no internal walls for load bearing other than center line walls.  A modular, especially 1500 Sq ft or above might depending on floor plan. Ranch styles usually not . Small modulars can be trucked in two sections but most four. 

That one  looks like a Stratford Caddy. Very popular in the mid west. 

[ACman 7,630]

Here in Michigan the cheaper modular homes maybe still built like a home trailer with steel trusses underneath just removing the axels. The higher end two piece  (1400-1600 Square foot) ones are trailered in on mobile home frames and 14 foot wide for maximum width of 28 foot wide house . Picked up by crane and put on a foundation, crawlspace, basement and bolted together at the center. At the same time the already partial shingle roof is raised up as the trusses are hinged and the  peak is bolted together also . One reason there really isn’t a big selection of open floor plans for modular homes is they have a 12 inch thick wall running through the whole center of the house, with  the only openings being archways and doorways all being load bearing . Under the floor all the joist are hung with hangers . We had a really good builder who put a 12 inch wide steel I beam run all the way down the center of the house. This allowed the center of the house to be supported and we cut holes for heat runs and cold air returns without having to use a lot of elbows and jumper pans. It was hard on drills and saws all’s but in the end it was built more like a regular house. He sold Crest Brand homes . These homes are hard to tell apart from a stick built home.

Edited December 13, 2019 by ACman

[SylvanLakeWH 27,541]

Plans don’t always reflect the reality of what is built. Only way to know what that wall is is to have it inspected by a trusted / respected builder, architect or structural engineer. 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by SylvanLakeWH