New to me 417A

[BrianX128 107]

First post here, browsed around before when I needed a new engine for my old C161 eight speed, Ended up putting a magnum 14 in it I found near me on craigslist and found some good info on here that really helped. I'm a big fan of tinkering with old mowers, trucks, chainsaws and weed eaters. Despite the fact that I'm a network admin for a hospital which has nothing to do with that, I picked up too much of my tinkering habits from my grandfather growing up haha..

 

I bought a 417A that a local guy near me had rebuilt last night, the thing is in pretty darn good shape. It must have had a couple of rust spots, but he patched those very well and the hydro is strong and the engine is smooth, no smoke and seems like it has really good power. I'm not a fan of hydro stuff, but I have a big yard and my wife wants to help mow some over summer. She's an english teacher and has the whole summer off, so I'm not going to argue with some help but she can't shift or grasp how not to fly down a hill after getting used to the C161 stopping when you press the clutch until the trans is in neutral when she shifts. It's just not happening, but I'm always cool with buying another mower. We have a zero turn, and I have a old 52 vac that was my grandfathers with a woods finish mower but she can't drive those either she almost kills herself on hills with the zero turn and I don't want her driving the vac so here we are.

 

Only issue I can see with this thing, is it doesn't seem like it's charging. Battery stays just above 12v on the voltmeter that's on the tractor but drops to almost 10 with the lights on. I think the voltage regulator is sitting on top of the engine on the left side from what I looked up online this morning. Hopefully it's either a loose connection or it's bad, I don't know how easy it's going to be on this thing to get to the stator if it needs replaced. I'm also not remembering seeing a wire on mine going from the stator to the positive terminal of the battery but maybe it doesn't connect straight to there? I didn't have time last night to really look into anything so I've just been researching online this morning when I get a spare minute.

 

I also don't know if it's a series 1 or 2, I know there's a 1/16 port for an oil pressure gauge on the block for the series 2 engines, I don't remember seeing that or an oil filter, so mine might be a 1 which isn't great I guess but for how well this thing runs and only having 600 hours I'm not too worried about it. This thing won't be working as hard as some of my other mowers will, my wife just mows around the house where there are trees and flower beds and stuff and I mow 75% of our yard with the Case / Zero turn. 

 

Thanks for any direction in advance about the charging system, I think I know what to try but I'm used to learning I'm totally wrong as well ha. Here's some pics if it lets me post them of it and some of my other mowers, even my super rare Lawn Rov'r. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,305]

 to the  Brian.      The 417 looks to be in really nice condition.  It has the strong Eaton 1100 hydro and should serve you well.

My 417 has nearly  2000 hours and still runs strong with no smoke.       Garry should be along soon with a wiring diagram to help with the charging issue.

BTW, nice collection of tractors and Fords.

[peter lena 8,649]

more often than not, i have found the connections to be the issue, i would gently pull part any related connection , lightly sand the male , slide side  and apply dielectric grease to insure conductivity and stop corrosion. think about it , the system worked at some point , if you don,t have a frayed or chafed wire connection ,and you can insure the power flow , you are half way there . i regularly improved  tight wire areas or issues . if a connection is questionable , cut it out and put in a new one , no big deal.  good luck on your search , pete   

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,063]

Your tractor ID decal may be in front of the seat. Those numbers should help with identification.

 

Garry

[pfrederi 17,742]

All 417 had Series 2 KT 17.  Regulator is circle in blue .  3 wire plug.  2 from stator one head off to ignition switch.

 

Like the VAC  I have  a 51  You r looks a lot nicer.... Mine runs a New Holland 930 3pt 6' finish mower.  I have a wood belly  mount for her also but the 6' is faster.

 

 

[Lee1977 6,677]

It's most likely the rectifier is bad . Pull the stator wiles and check the AC voltage should be high 30's to low 40 volts. 

[BrianX128 107]

7 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

It's most likely the rectifier is bad . Pull the stator wiles and check the AC voltage should be high 30's to low 40 volts. 

 

Two outside wires of it, correct?

 

So if it is in fact a series 2 engine, it should have a port to put an oil filter on it correct? I have some experience putting remote mount oil filters on some of my trucks to fit some 2 micron full flow donaldson filters on my old IDI diesels in my fords so I wouldn't mind adding a filter with a gauge on this one somewhere. I'll have plenty of time to tinker around with things this winter.

[Lee1977 6,677]

2 minutes ago, BrianX128 said:

 

Two outside wires of it, correct?  

 

 

 

Yes two outside wires.

 

A series II should have a oil filter.

 

[BrianX128 107]

4 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

 

Yes two outside wires.

 

A series II should have a oil filter.

 

 

See I've read sometimes online that they came with one from the factory, and also read sometimes that it just had the ability to have one but that it wasn't put on them by default. 

 

I guess I'll know for sure when I get home and can spend some more time looking over things.

[Pullstart 62,925]

 @BrianX128!  I am not a Ford fan, but it looks like you take care of what you enjoy so that’s a win in my book!  

 

@953 nut one of our resident wiring gurus taught me recently that the regulator/rectifier needs to see 12v from the battery to give out the 14 charging volts.  I recently had a charging issue where the regulator wire (center) to the key switch was disconnected.  Possibly yours is corroded, broken or disconnected as well?  With the key on, you should have battery voltage from the center post to ground.

[pfrederi 17,742]

Oil filters were an option for Series II from Kohler     Wheel horse didn't buy them.  They were paying extra for a thrust bearing on the crankshaft.

[BrianX128 107]

2 minutes ago, pullstart said:

 @BrianX128!  I am not a Ford fan, but it looks like you take care of what you enjoy so that’s a win in my book!  

 

@953 nut one of our resident wiring gurus taught me recently that the regulator/rectifier needs to see 12v from the battery to give out the 14 charging volts.  I recently had a charging issue where the regulator wire (center) to the key switch was disconnected.  Possibly yours is corroded, broken or disconnected as well?  With the key on, you should have battery voltage from the center post to ground.

 

Thanks! 

 

I guess I could always run a jumper wire from the middle of the rectifier to the battery after I check connections to see if my ignition switch isn't cooperating. I know my volt meter itself is getting voltage so something at the ignition switch must be passing voltage to it, but who knows where exactly that's coming from. I also have an old mallory rpm gauge that hooks up to the negative side of a coil that is collecting dust so I'm going to toss that on and mount it somewhere when I get home. I had it on my vac, but when your rpms top out at 1800 it's kinda pointless on a 0-10k gauge but I'm guessing this thing at least goes to 3500rpm so it might at least serve some form of a purpose here.

[Pullstart 62,925]

It’s cool to know that you know “stuff”!  Yep, a jumper would help greatly to see if the regulator/rectifier is the culprit or if it’s a wiring/connection issue 

[pfrederi 17,742]

4 minutes ago, BrianX128 said:

 

Thanks! 

 

I guess I could always run a jumper wire from the middle of the rectifier to the battery after I check connections to see if my ignition switch isn't cooperating. I know my volt meter itself is getting voltage so something at the ignition switch must be passing voltage to it, but who knows where exactly that's coming from. I also have an old mallory rpm gauge that hooks up to the negative side of a coil that is collecting dust so I'm going to toss that on and mount it somewhere when I get home. I had it on my vac, but when your rpms top out at 1800 it's kinda pointless on a 0-10k gauge but I'm guessing this thing at least goes to 3500rpm so it might at least serve some form of a purpose here.

 

 

I do not think your RPM  gauge will read accurately.    The double coil on a KT fires both plugs at the same time even though one is finishing the exhaust stroke, not compression.

[BrianX128 107]

4 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

I do not think your RPM  gauge will read accurately.    The double coil on a KT fires both plugs at the same time even though one is finishing the exhaust stroke, not compression.

 

I guess if it's reading double I'd still know what it is, but I'd probably be further off putting a spare tiny tach on one plug wire and just saying it's .. hmm I can't think of how I'd set that then, double spark so 2 pulse = 1 revolution in the control panel I guess.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,610]

[SPINJIM 1,981]

I think that some years of the 417 did not have the usual voltage regulator, and instead used an inline diode that only allowed a 3 amp charge to the battery.  And when you turn on the headlights, you get a net discharge from the battery.  Not a good design, but Toro saved a few bucks on each tractor.    Check the wiring diagram for your specific year.

   Jim

[BrianX128 107]

Sounds good. I'm guessing that model won't even have a regulator at all then so should be easy to tell.

 

I was going to top off the "trans fluid" as it's halfway on the dipstick (I think, its super clean) but I can't get the oil to go in without it bubbling up from having no vent to put it in and I made a giant mess last night. Surely there is a better way to get this half of a quart I probably need in there..

[oliver2-44 9,783]

As others have mentioned, cleaning and greasing all the electrical connections is an excellent maintenance for a new to you tractor.  You might consider changing the hydro transmission oil and filter instead of just topping it off.  An oil can look clean because its been sitting and the crud has settled out.      

[pfrederi 17,742]

You have a regulator i can see it in your picture.  They are cheap all over the internet.

 

As far as tranny you can hang a wire next to the funnel and still pour slowly or take out one of the bolts on the top that hold the seat support/fuel tank  Be careful not to get any dirt in there.

 

 

[JCM 9,214]

   TO    Brian

[ebinmaine 67,731]

1 hour ago, JCM said:

   TO    Brian

 

 

Be careful about stuff @pullstart says... He's a decent guy overall but he likes Chevveees.....

 

Ok ok ok me too.... 

But that 80-86 F on the left ....

Yeah...

 

[Pullstart 62,925]

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

Be careful about stuff @pullstart says... He's a decent guy overall but he likes Chevveees.....

 

Ok ok ok me too.... 

But that 80-86 F on the left ....

Yeah...

 

 

Just check out that body!  Sure is a nice rear end!

 

 

[Herder 2,354]

 to The hydro and lift will grow on you.  Nice collection of fords too.   This was one of my former projects, sold it about five years ago.

[BrianX128 107]

So I found some stuff out tonight while I had a chance to mess with it. First it is a series 2 engine I'm basically positive. The Spec number is 24350 or 24359 I can't tell what the last digit is but I also found a little hexagon threaded plug by the pto area facing the driver.

 

The charging situation is another story. I have 12 volts at the middle terminal but the outer two register nothing on ac voltage. I cleaned all of the terminals in case I'm doing something wrong with my volt meter in ac and still nothing. The regulator might be bad too, I'm guessing it would be best to just replace both. What's the go to source for those just ebay? I'm hoping it's not impossible to get to the stator on this thing.