Integrity in real estate

[Racinbob 11,039]

When we still lived in Florida and looking for a place up here we worked with a long time friend who is a buyers only realtor as we were looking. Finally, through internet magic we compiled a list of home to look at. I drove up and Toni and I had planned to hit them all up which we did. The place we are in now was the first one we looked at and, while I liked the house (Keria Trail) and 2 large garages, the extremely steep hills and some bypass noise caused me to say no. Later we looked at a place on Jackson Road, liked it and submitted it. It was accepted and we thought we had just bought a house. As our Florida home wasn't listed yet I drove back down and immediately did so. We had pre-planned this so all the preliminary work was done so it was on the market fast. 4 days later with multiple offers on the table we accepted the offer we liked best. The very next day we were told that we couldn't buy the Jackson house as it already was under contract with first right of refusal and the other buyer decided to go for it. We were never told, Toni was never told, the seller didn't realize what had happened...…..only the selling realtor knew. Legal proceedings were screaming at us but we were in a bind. Now our Florida house was sold and we had no place to go. I told Toni that we'd go for the Keria home and the rest is history. Yea, she wanted me to go after the selling realtor but we had more urgent issues to take care of. Now we would have a house to move our things. 

 

Fast forward, After 2+ years of intensive remodeling/rebuilding we were getting tired of the hills. The layout was such we had to keep a lot of areas mowed with a push mower. I can't do it because of spinal and shoulder issues so my wife does that. On almost a whim we decided to see what the market value was. Toni is in California now but she referred us to Trudy and she had been wonderful. She said this house couldn't be comped so she paid for an appraisal. We about filled our pants when we saw what it was worth now. As in Florida we did the prelim. work but didn't list it until if and when we found something. Just before taking it off the market for the winter we found a great place. Move in ready and 10 beautiful FLAT acres. We listed our house and again, it sold in 4 days with multiple offers over the listing price. We accepted an offer and the usual red tape began. About a month later everything was done and we were ready to close. I was actually sitting in the car waiting on my wife when Trudy called. The buyers just had called and and the deal was off. They won't be at the closing. In spite of the legal ramifications they could be looking at they simply said they don't care. All they would say as far as the reason is that it was personal. What the hell is wrong with people!!??

 

All does end well.....we hope. We had a backup offer that we accepted from buyers that had even sent us a 'tug at your heart' letter. Better yet, we decided to keep our schedule for moving into our new place. One truckload went last evening and a couple truck and trailer loads today. We have movers coming Wednesday for the big stuff. We hope to be 100% by next weekend Now we just have to pray the second buyers have some integrity that the first buyers don't. We'll worry about dealing with them this coming week. I haven't decided what to do yet.

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

My sister sold her immaculate house and the house inspection people drove her nuts. after a couple of buyers were close and then backed out she had to pay for rrediculous small repairs they kept finding the need to do.   The last straw was when the last person who actually bought the house had it inspected. the guy loaded up both bathtubs and a SINGLE DROP of water escaped from a clean out  that was fixed by applying teflon tape and screwing it in.

 

 They were required to hire a licensed plumber at the cost of $100.00.

 

 Meanwhile, I sold one of my houses on land contract and will be enjoying a 6.5 % interest rate of return and the lawyer only charged me $350.00. I sold that house because the village it was located in was an absolute disaster to do business in

 

 Realtors are worse than lawyers [in my experience] The people I sold the house to are princes among men, and they think the same of me.

 

 So Mr. Bob, I do wish you luck, but the deck is stacked against you when trying to enforce a contract. Let's all hope that the bad actors were moved to do their dirty deed and perhaps a Higher Power was involved so the better people could get the house.  There is one thing that you can do to the bad actors and that is sue them in small claims court and get a judgement. They will have their credit score lowered by a large amount and then maybe not be able to do their mischief to anyone else as they will not qualify for a loan with a fresh judgement.

[JoeM 7,871]

2 hours ago, Racinbob said:

What the hell is wrong with people!!??

No core values!

It took my son a year to sell a home. 6 different times on and off again. Pre approved is a fantasy. Lie like carpets on loans apps and it goes on. I know they ended up a year or so with two mortgages when the plan was to have things done in 90. And I can't believe those inspectors, three different times, three different inspectors, three different reports. I could not believe some of the nickel and dime stuff. 

Amazing Process.   

[clueless 2,975]

I feel you Bob, also don't believe that those expensive title searches you have to get mean a damn thing down the road, trust me. Like Elvis, integrity left the building along time ago. 

 

[pfrederi 17,660]

Having had to deal with many realtors on short fused moves (Multiple PCS moves in 28 years) I ranked them right down with Used car salesmen and lawyers.  Final move was to NEPA  (Marcellous Shale gas) and met land men.  They moved Real estate, Used car sales and lawyers up one notch....

[bc.gold 3,403]

My other found a turn of the century house that she fell in love with so we went for a drive, we made an offer which was countered. I declined the counter offer.

 

Then come December my other points out to me that the house is still listed, she's obviously interested so a submit another offer several thousand below our first which the owner now accepts.

 

The realtor wants to double end the sale by representing both the seller and buyer, I'm not particularly fond of realtors but the one who sold us out first house which we had purchased over the internet based on pictures and info posted.

 

The house was three provinces east of our home, anyhow on my first load of stuff the realtor came over to introduce himself then proceeded to assist in offloading truck and trailer.

 

So one the new purchase called Murray asking if he could represent us which he did, this meant the other realtor had to split the commission. I'm told that she became very unprofessional with Murray, so much that he filed a complaint with the realtors board.

 

I was not aware of the issues taking place, then possession date arrived I make a phone call asking for the keys to the house and she tells me that she's busy and will not be able to meet up with me.

 

I tell her that's fine we legally own the house now I'll just kick in the door then change the locks, she met me that Saturday morning on my arrival. No words exchanged just a passing of the keys.

 

On another property we had purchased we had it for a year or so never moved in then we listed it with another realtor for a three month listing. It was an MLS listing with pictures online, well the pictures she ( Liz ) used were from when we had first purchased the property with a SOLD sticker across the front.

 

I was aware she had used old images for the listing then as the three months is nearing a close I get a telephone call from Liz, I know how these calls go. I have a client interested would you extend the listing bla bla.

 

This is when I tell her about the sign that was used on the MLS listing for the past three months, she had the gall to ask me why I hadn't informed her of the error. I simply told her this was not in my job description.

 

We eventually sold the house privately.

 

On another real estate deal we had listed a client from Vancouver came out to look the property over then submitted an offer with the realtor that never hit our desk. He told her no longer available then took her out to view another property which she had declined.

 

I could sense there was something amiss with this realtor, after the listing expired most people are not aware there's a three month clause even thought no longer listed should you sell the property your on the hook for commission. This is Canadian real estate law.

 

Anyhow the property he had taken the client to see was owned by the realitor himself, what a scum bag.

 

I was desperate to sell, had a mortgage on a small ranch that I could handle but making the payments on a Super K backhoe was keeping me awake nights.

 

After taking charge of the property sale had it sold within a week, and the scum realitor was no where able to claim any commission, he had worked the client on bad faith, I could have filed a report but figure there's no need as these crooks self destruct on their own.

 

From the long winded rant you can see how I feel about realitors.

[bc.gold 3,403]

Was funny when I sold the Princeton property, I had met the client at the property we agreed on the price and now she says I'm not sure what to do.

 

I told her give me a token deposit, I'll write you a receipt then you go see your lawyer who will do a lien search, pay those out, notify you of any registered easements, pro-rate tax's then transfer the tittle.

 

She could not believe it could be that easy, we agreed to hold a small second mortgage, had the realtor been the driving force this sale would never had taken place.

 

When I purchased the Ranch it was listed but I by-passed the suit making my own introduction to the owners, laid my cards on the table finding myself 30K short. Another mortgage negotiated over a cup of coffee.

 

When you give up the right to be your own mouthpiece, very few have ever been satisfied with the results.

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

5 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

 So Mr. Bob, I do wish you luck, but the deck is stacked against you when trying to enforce a contract. Let's all hope that the bad actors were moved to do their dirty deed and perhaps a Higher Power was involved so the better people could get the house.  There is one thing that you can do to the bad actors and that is sue them in small claims court and get a judgement. They will have their credit score lowered by a large amount and then maybe not be able to do their mischief to anyone else as they will not qualify for a loan with a fresh judgement.

 

A new neighbor recently retired RCMP purchased a house on a private deal, paid cash then had a lawyer transfer the tittle. This is when they discovered several builders liens registered to the property.

 

Both the cop and previous owner are at loggerheads, in the meantime the cop is in essence a squatter as the tittle has yet to be transferred I'm curious to know who is paying the property tax.

 

Kinda the same for the cops brother also bought a house privately and never did any checking and it turned out the previous owner was three years in arrears on the property tax.

 

Personally I'm of the opinion the pot head brother could beat the tax thing, possession being 9/10th ownership and that he had neither interests the prior two years.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by bcgold

[pfrederi 17,660]

Another thought on Real Estate agents...Remember when $17-20K could buy you a nice house...Commission was 5% That lasted for many years   Now with houses at $250-300k commission is 7%???? Did I miss something///

[953 nut 55,056]

Bob,  I'm glad everything is working out well for you.                   I presume there is lots of room for the herd!      

I doubt that anything can be done about the would-be buyer that backed out unless they had a substantial deposit. The realtors and lawyers will split up the forfeited deposit and not even send you a thank you card.     

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

4 minutes ago, OILUJ52 said:

No core values!

It took my son a year to sell a home. 6 different times on and off again. Pre approved is a fantasy. Lie like carpets on loans apps and it goes on. I know they ended up a year or so with two mortgages when the plan was to have things done in 90. And I can't believe those inspectors, three different times, three different inspectors, three different reports. I could not believe some of the nickel and dime stuff. 

Amazing Process.   

 I could rant on about Realtors some more, but they can be as bad as those buyers you describe. I remember dressing one of them down like Gunny Earmy--not my finest hour, but total liars seem to have that effect on me.

[Racinbob 11,039]

I guess in my venting here many have misunderstood me. I'm in no way attacking realtors here. Other than the Jackson Road selling realtor they have been nothing but great. Yes, I know it can be a shady business but I truly believe it's the very few that give them all a bad reputation. As with any occupation or simply people in general I have never, and never will, proclaim them all bad just because of the very few. The VAST majority of realtors, lawyers or whatever trade are wonderful folks loaded with integrity. I've always handled myself all my life with that belief and always will for the remainder of my time left. This is about the so called buyers of this house breaching a legally binding contract. Not at the 11th hour but with literally minutes before the papers were signed. We wanted everything done well before the holidays and with any real estate transaction it takes about 30 days to get through the legal red tape, inspections, etc. Yea, a cash deal will speed things up but few buyers are in that position and these buyers weren't in that position. I doubt that anybody other than the two of them will ever know the truth as to why they waited until the very last minute to back out. Fortunately we had a back up offer and when they heard that they once again had the opportunity to buy this house they were thrilled. Our realtor had said that they wrote that 'tug at our hearts' letter when we were still making the decision on which offer to accept and asked if we wanted to see it. I told her no only because we were going with a different offer. Now that they are back in the picture I asked her to send it to me. Let's just say that it certainly did tug at our hearts and it's likely that things will turn out right for them. They have signed the needed papers to get things started and if things go as planned they will be in this house before our Florida family get here for Thanksgiving. 

 

In a way I'm sorry for venting the way I did when I started this thread. The comments and opinions have been appreciated but at the moment I was simply pissed off. It wasn't about the money but more about the buyers integrity. Their realtor was in tears about what happened. Our realtor as well. I did my best to console them because it had absolutely nothing to do with either of them. They both worked hard to get through the legal crap involved these days and yes, they get a nice commission if the sale goes through but that's their job. There's nothing to be ashamed about that. I never once was ashamed to accept my pay doing my job. This is all about the buyers who showed themselves to be in the tiny minority of people with zero integrity. In spite of them I refuse to lump everybody in their category. Sure, we have legal rights but all we are doing is keeping their earnest money and 100% of that comes to us. Yes, our realtor will get her share of the commission on the house we bought and on this house when it closes but she entitled to it and certainly deserves it. The scumbag buyers realtor, unfortunately, gets nothing but hopefully my hug and words to her made her feel better.  

[Racinbob 11,039]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Bob,  I'm glad everything is working out well for you.                   I presume there is lots of room for the herd!      

I doubt that anything can be done about the would-be buyer that backed out unless they had a substantial deposit. The realtors and lawyers will split up the forfeited deposit and not even send you a thank you card.     

 

I just poured my first cup of coffee this morning so maybe I'm better now. Thank you Richard and yes, things will work out. We are very fortunate. Room for the herd? Yes and no. There's an attached 26' x 36' garage and that will get us by for the winter. Next summer I will be adding a building. The size it yet to be determined. The house is just over 2000 sq ft with a full unfinished basement. I'm not going to finish it other that utilizing it for storage so that will play a factor. We've got the winter to decide. The second best thing is that all the living space is on one floor rather than 3. The best thing is that it sits on the south end of 10 beautiful acres. My wife knows that I'll spend more time out there instead of in the house and she loves that. 

 

[clueless 2,975]

That's a nice one Bob .

[JoeM 7,871]

RB nothing wrong with being passionate in one's endeavors! Speaking the truth is about as hard as hearing it. Unfortunately, it must be said. Who knows, maybe someone will read this and take something away.

Nice home, enjoy!

[stevasaurus 22,706]

If you keep circling like a dog, you will finally find the right place to lay down.       You and Nancy can always bring the herd over here and stay with Chris and me.    and you will gain an hour coming over here.  

[Racinbob 11,039]

Won't be gaining that hour Steve. It's in Starke county and on central time. 

[953 nut 55,056]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:50 AM, Racinbob said:

The second best thing is that all the living space is on one floor rather than 3.

     When we built our house the one level living was a primary consideration. The spiral staircase in our previous house would have been a major PITA following my spinal surgery or the wife's shoulder replacement. 

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

Then we get to investment real estate and so called property management. I have had zero success with realtors on this one. They want fifteen percent management fee and still put poor clients in your place this losing you money. You need to make another 12 percent ROI just to keep the doors open and hope for future appreciation. I will take you through a new investor as I repair his house for a new tenant.

  Manny is from the mean streets of Miami and has achieved much. We know him from college days when he ran track with our daughter. He asked me for a handyman recommendation , and I told him I have a guy in mind that is also going to school for HVAC ,so a good guy to have available in the future. The realtor who was managing the property had her painter in there and he painted the trim with ceiling white. Lovely. The solution is to just paint the flat surface and not cut into the wall using cabinet grade semi gloss. Time is money and we need presentable pictures to put online.

  Manny had two roofers give him estimates to fix a leak that was in an attic and affected the ceiling that was thick plaster over rock lath. He was told that no way could they patch the leak because the roof was too old. I just got done fixing the leak myself and the leak was traced to a roof vent with poor nailing patterns and it leaked a bit since inception. That one section was replaced maybe three years ago and I repaired it by heating the sealant strips with a torch to be able to lift and remove the offending nails and adding ice and water shield like scales on a fish to divert the water away. Ice and water shield can be penetrated with nails and not leak. That's how I triple flash critical areas of a roof. I quit roofing professionally because of sun and cancer risk but still know my way around .

 I can see the roof estimator guy looking at the general age of the roof, but this section was clearly not if the same age. It also might be that a difficult customer may expect a repair to last for twenty years, so they just shy away.. So Manny is very happy that his roof should last long enough to get some cash reserves to keep him from needing to finance the roof . 

   I cannot even find veneer plaster to fix the ceiling, so I will have to use Durabond easy sand to marry the repair to the existing ceiling. Drywall joint compound does not work for stuff like this...  I laughed at the fact that there is no veneer plaster or the KalBoard underlayment to be bought in Dayton Ohio. The German people up in Russia Ohio or Saint Henry all use veneer plaster and would rather build a smaller house than compromise on quality. I am supposed to be retired, but a guy who knows a little something about a lot of repairs hardly exists anymore and I pick and choose a project here and there

The guy who works with me is hungry for knowledge and I have fun showing him some tricks of the trades.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by ohiofarmer

[Racinbob 11,039]

14 hours ago, lacramioara said:

They even consider wind noise in the nearby woods because some people don't like that.

 I guess there's all types. We would consider that sweet music.

 

We're not into the home 'flipping' but I guess we can't deny we are into home renovation. We think back over the years and realize how lucky we have been. Since we were married in 1975 we have had seven homes. We've always done very well on resell due to the home value timing and even more so the renovations. We never used an outside contractor so our costs were much more reasonable. We did extensive work to every house that played a major part in the resell value. House #2 was a disaster of epic proportions as was the first house we bought when we moved back here in 2017. Both were basically total rebuilds. After it was finished we still wanted out due to location, bypass noise and the terrain. We should not have been put in that situation but we had no choice but to suck it up and work. At the time we didn't think so but we actually were very lucky. I had it finished right at the peak of the housing market. Our biggest concern was we'd have to purchase another house in that market. This house was built in 1998 and there were really no issues that the typical homeowner would notice. But for some reason the sellers kept lowering the price trying to sell it. Much to the realtors dismay we talked to them and asked why. All they could say is that everybody wanted a finished basement. That didn't really make sense but I caught the real reason on my first walk thru. The basement walls are called Ice-Block. A steel structure encapsulated in polystyrene. With an R-value of 30 it's great but the polystyrene wasn't covered with a fire barrier. As lousy as home inspectors are I can't imagine any of them not catching that major safety issue. Potential buyers ran away seeing major bucks to take care of it. Not really. Under a grand not counting my labor. Although most people wouldn't have done it I went through all the wiring and replaced the panels with the brand of my choice as well as for a generator. I replaced the plumbing cuz I don't like CPVC and I wanted everything isolated. Also countless other things that weren't unusual in a 20 year old house and some cuz I just wanted it that way. At my age I'm not up to doing a complete rebuild and this house thankfully doesn't need it. We love it here.................in spite of the wind in the woods. 

 

Looking back at the realtor issues and worthless home inspections things still worked out and we consider ourselves quite lucky.