C-195 Project

[Phil902 70]

Thanks Garry. That part you couldn’t read says “SPEC. NO. “ . I looked at the PartsTree doc, and with two exceptions everything seems to be the same. Exhaust/muffler is different, and the vent from the crankcase is just a piece of 3/8 fuel line that is clearly a “recent” replacement. 
 

I know that the engine was swapped in shortly before my PO bought the tractor. That was about 1997. Bill D’s point is well taken regarding durability under a side load. This engine could well have been intended for use in a generator, or something else with only a straight-on horizontal load.

 

Before asking questions, I try to find if the info exists in other posts or the library here. I’m still learning to refine my searching techniques, and have found helpful info on this project, as well as my 161. I appreciate the manuals. I found the service manual in another post in the electrical section here, but lost it when I tried to download it. I’m new to this iPad thing after decades of using a PC with windows in one form or another. I was able to download these and find them again.👏 Now.... if there’s an IPL or service manual for the 195........

[WHX?? 48,828]

IPL here Phil... Best I could find in the files. this is for a '84 but might get you started. 

Tractor 1984 C-195 Twin Auto 01-19KE02 TIPL (1).pdf

[Phil902 70]

49 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

IPL here Phil... Best I could find in the files. this is for a '84 but might get you started. 

Tractor 1984 C-195 Twin Auto 01-19KE02 TIPL (1).pdf 3.59 MB · 2 downloads

Awesome. Thanks so much.

[Phil902 70]

I’m back with an update. I drained the engine oil to the proper level, and the breather tube “spitting” diminished significantly, but not completely. I rewired the engine. I ran a new fuel line, and replaced the tank grommet and fuel shutoff, but need to flush the tank. I’m running it off an old mower tank for now. The safety switches are still bypassed, and the rectifier wiring is original. The headlights work, but still need to be rewired. Tailiights don’t work yet. The prior owner was cleaning out his garage and found the air filter cover, so a few bucks saved. 
 

I replaced the filter and filled the tranny. I moved the tractor forward and backward about ten yards each way four or five times. Everything works smooth. The tractor creeps in neutral, and will need adjusting. The brake pad lining is gone, and the brake doesn’t move to make contact with the wheel. Not sure yet if it needs adjusting or If a part is missing. I need to recheck the compression. The tranny oil all leaked out through the wheel seal. I’ll soak the hub with Kroill and let it steep for the winter. Hopefully I’ll have the same luck it had with the engine last winter.
 

So, I was making good progress for a few weekends. Ever hear the old saying “ life is that thing that happens while you’re making other plans”? About 6 weeks ago, right before we were heading to the camp for 2 weeks, my wife encountered a medical problem . Tests and procedures are ongoing.  I went up this weekend to pull the boats and begin the shutdown process. A second trip will complete the process in the next few weeks. No WH work for the rest of this year. Thanks everyone for your help, and rest assured I’ll be back in the Spring to pick brains .

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Phil902

[953 nut 55,298]

9 hours ago, Phil902 said:

I drained the engine oil to the proper level, and the breather tube “spitting” diminished significantly,

I have run into the same thing. Did the oil smell like gas at all? Fuel pump on top of the engine can leak gas into the oil.

 

                Love those scented candles!                                                  They do sort of typify 2020!                   

Edited September 14, 2020 by 953 nut

[WHX?? 48,828]

10 hours ago, Phil902 said:

breather tube “spitting”

Mine does the same thing and does smoke abit so I'm thinking rings are getting loose. Have yet to do a compression or leak down test.... almost afraid too. Have a line on KT series II so see how that pans out. 

[Phil902 70]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

I have run into the same thing. Did the oil smell like gas at all? Fuel pump on top of the engine can leak gas into the oil.

 

                Love those scented candles!                                                  They do sort of typify 2020!                   

No gas in the oil. The overfill was fully on me. I’m hoping the rings were stuck. I may still get to do a compression check to see if they’ve come up at all if not, Spring. 

[Phil902 70]

11 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Mine does the same thing and does smoke abit so I'm thinking rings are getting loose. Have yet to do a compression or leak down test.... almost afraid too. Have a line on KT series II so see how that pans out. 

Mine smoked The first time I started it, I think mainly from the concoctions poured in the cylinders to free it up. Smokes a little bit now, but less Than I expected. Good luck chasing your lead. 

[WHX?? 48,828]

Thank you Phil. It would come out of a Cub that mounts 90 deg out from ours so have to see if it would even work. 

Oh sure it would smoke alot if things were dumped in it to free. 

I used some oil additive to help seal rings but not a fan of liquid tune ups so see what shakes. 

Try MMO if you have stuck rings. It can't hurt. 

Sounds like you had to do all of what I did.... complete rewire. Mine had all of the safety switches gone which is a good/bad thing.

Prayers for your Missus. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by WHX24

[Phil902 70]

10 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Thank you Phil. It would come out of a Cub that mounts 90 deg out from ours so have to see if it would even work. 

Oh sure it would smoke alot if things were dumped in it to free. 

I used some oil additive to help seal rings but not a fan of liquid tune ups so see what shakes. 

Try MMO if you have stuck rings. It can't hurt. 

Sounds like you had to do all of what I did.... complete rewire. Mine had all of the safety switches gone which is a good/bad thing.

Prayers for your Missus. 

I used 50/50 acetone and ATF in the cylinders from last October thru May. That got them to turn a little. Kroil for just a few hours freed them the rest of the way. I’ll probably put them to bed with a little more Kroil for the winter. Thanks for the prayers.

[953 nut 55,298]

11 hours ago, Phil902 said:

50/50 acetone and ATF

Acetone is so volatile that you probably had 100 % ATF after the first day.

[Phil902 70]

11 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Acetone is so volatile that you probably had 100 % ATF after the first day.

I’m sure. My uncle was a master mechanic who owned a service station. He told me about the mixture for freeing stuck nuts and bolts etc. His preferred tool for them was his torch, but heat wasn’t always an option, and the best I can do is MAPP gas. He said the acetone thinned out the ATF long enough to take it deeper into tight quarters where the lubricating properties of the ATF went to work. I find it works for me almost as well as Kroil, at a much lower cost. I know some people like to thin it with mineral spirits. I’ve never tried that. 

[Bill D 1,926]

Prayers for your wife.  Fill the motor to the top with MMO.  Let it sit for the winter.  That should free up any stuck rings.  Drain it and crank it over with the plugs removed in the spring.

[Phil902 70]

5 hours ago, Bill D said:

Prayers for your wife.  Fill the motor to the top with MMO.  Let it sit for the winter.  That should free up any stuck rings.  Drain it and crank it over with the plugs removed in the spring.

Thank you. So for the MMO procedure, drain it and fill it with MMO until it bleeds , then put a BIG honkin’ sign on the steering wheel that says.   “DRAIN THE MMO FIRST !!!! “ ...... sound about right? 

[WHX?? 48,828]

Never heard of that one Bill would something like kerosene work too? What keeps it from weeping out the gaskets?  

[Phil902 70]

1 minute ago, WHX24 said:

Never heard of that one Bill would something like kerosene work too? What keeps it from weeping out the gaskets?  

Maybe I misunderstood. Would getting the pistons roughly halfway between TDC/BDC and filling the cylinders to the top be correct?

[Bill D 1,926]

I was thinking to fill the motor to the top with MMO and let it sit.  Over the winter the MMO should seep past the rings and free them up if they are stuck.  In the spring drain the crankcase to the proper level, then remove the plugs and crank the engine over to blow the oil out of the cylinders.  Drain the crankcase the rest of the way and refill with the proper oil.  I wouldn't use kerosene as it might damage seals.  I have not personally done anything like this.  It's just a thought I came up with to try freeing stuck rings and clean the inside of the engine.  I would like to know if anyone had actually done something like this.  Bill

Edited September 17, 2020 by Bill D

[AMC RULES 37,130]

From my experience, you pull the plug, and fill it with diesel.

Will free that engine up with the quickness. 

[Thor27 769]

On 9/15/2020 at 4:22 PM, Phil902 said:

 I know some people like to thin it with mineral spirits. I’ve never tried that. 

 

Side note...  Motor oil and mineral spirits works good for preservation.  when the mineral spirits evaporate it makes the oil kind of "cosmoline-ish" sticky.  I use it to store engine parts in my non climate controlled garage, keeps the flash rust away.

 

Phil, hope all is well with you and yours!  (and the 195)

[Phil902 70]

Quote

 

Side note...  Motor oil and mineral spirits works good for preservation.  when the mineral spirits evaporate it makes the oil kind of "cosmoline-ish" sticky.  I use it to store engine parts in my non climate controlled garage, keeps the flash rust away.

 

Phil, hope all is well with you and yours!  (and the 195)

Thanks, Thor. I haven’t uncovered the 195 yet. After discovery of a small tumor on my wife’s pancreas, doctors were optimistic because of early discovery, small size,etc. Three days before we were to meet the oncologist for the first time to get a chemo plan, Ann went to bed feeling “more tired than any time since this started”. Some time during the night, she went downstairs. In the morning, she was sitting on the living room floor, conscious but unaware. Two days later, she passed peacefully. The “small tumor” had completely overtaken and shut down her liver, causing sepsis and total systems failure. It was seven weeks from discovery to death. While there is a blessing in the lack of suffering, there is massive shock from the suddenness. I’m now the primary caregiver for two adult disabled sons. Another blessing, they’re the reason I get out of bed every day. I gotta say.... being a mother and a housewife sure looked a lot easier from my seat in the recliner....

 

I’ll get back to the 195, but right now, I have to deal with the upholstery damage a raccoon wreaked on my pontoon boat over the winter. Upholstery I installed at the end of 2019. On the bright side, for the first time since I’ve owned it, the 161 started right up after the installation of a new battery and did yeoman work hauling leaves up the hill to the woods. 

[Thor27 769]

The 2020 scented candle was certainly an understatement.  I am sorry for your loss, and inspired by your strength.  

[Mickwhitt 4,641]

Dreadful new Phil, so sorry about your wife.  I can't begin to imagine how you must feel.

Take care and stay strong.

Mick 

[Phil902 70]

I’m back…..after leaving it sitting for about a year and a half, I went back to work on the C-195. I need to put a new seal in the axle. My largest puller didn’t quite fit,  so I used a three jaw puller VERY carefully, along with heat, Kroil, and judicious tapping with a ball peen. ( I also cursed….a lot.) Took almost three hours, but the hub is off, with no apparent harm done. 
 

The key isn’t coming out easily. I’m inclined to leave it alone. Thoughts? I found that the second set screw that bears directly on the axle has made a dimple, and slightly raised the steel around the dimple. Should I carefully file this smooth? 
 

Regarding the seal, will a 90 degree pick remove it? I’ve never replaced one, how do I size it to order one? 
 

 

[WHX?? 48,828]

2 hours ago, Phil902 said:

The key isn’t coming out easily.

You mean out of the axle? If so yes it has to come out to replace the seal. Kroil and a small punch or cold chisel to get it moving. The key is expendable and should be replaced anyway. 937108 woodruff key 1/4 x 1 3/8.  Tape over the keyway to avoid sharp edges nicking the new seal when installing. 

 

2 hours ago, Phil902 said:

set screw that bears directly on the axle has made a dimple,

Yes file it smooth... one of the reasons the hub comes off hard. I like to file a flat spot there so when it dimples again it's below the round of the axle. 

 

To get the seal out carefully drill a small hole in it and thread a sheet metal screw in it to pull it out. Or use your 90 pick to get it out. Either way be careful there is a needle bearing directly behind it. Speaking of that bearing guessing you checked it for up and down play? Eaton 1100 uses a 6449 seal. 

 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/6449-axle-seal-for-hydrostatic-transmission/

This one is not as quite as thick as the original but will work. 

 

Just read your post from last year and sorry to hear about your wife. Continued prayers from all of us and hoping time is healing wounds. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by WHX??

[ebinmaine 67,592]

@WHX?? Excellent answer series ..... and the kind words. 

Yer a good man there Jimbo. I don't care what @Achto says about you for at least a couple weeks.