Stick welder. Entry level. What would you buy?

[ebinmaine 68,483]

Okay folks I'm going to change out my question a little bit.

 

One. If I'm going to go look at an old Lincoln tombstone, what do I want to look for?

Is it really as simple as... If it works it works?

Are there internal wear items or something simple like maybe feel for a loose tile or whatever?

 

 

And second...

 

Let's say I'm going to go get a new wire feed.

Please keep in mind that all of my welding is done outside so I have concerns about gas being blown away. I've read about that multiple places including here.

 

Is there a particular model that you would recommend for less than $300 ?

 

 

[Pullstart 63,109]

2 hours ago, bcgold said:

Using a pail of lye water for a welder is an experience one never forgets, electricians on the forum would best understand the principal.

 

 

The homemade welder was a type of water capacitor that could be used as a welder.

 

A water capacitor is a device that uses water as its dielectric insulating medium. A capacitor is a device in which electrical energy is introduced and can be stored for a later time. A capacitor consists of two conductors separated by a non-conductive region.

 

 

 

 

I’ve said it before....  the things you have experienced or come up with.... sure are fun to learn about!

[953 nut 55,882]

7 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

what do I want to look for?

Is it really as simple as... If it works it works?

YES!     Obviously if it hasn't been abused you can't go wrong. The only part that can go bad is the rotary switch for selecting amperage, If it is good and tight you will be good. In the '70s Lincoln went from copper windings to aluminum but the newer ones work fine too.

[pfrederi 17,902]

I will ad as a complete amateur welder I really like the DC capability.  A mentioned can be much easier striking an arc  got his for #35 at an auction. Didn't work well found it was wired for 440.  Fixed to 220 works great.  Miller Thunderbolt  AC/DC

 

 

[JoeM 7,874]

5 hours ago, pullstart said:

Preachin’ with the choir here... I’d say a MIG welder is going to be your best friend for the little stuff.  With a couple passes, welding up a 1/2” channel is easily achieved with a 220 MIG and so is sheet metal, belt guards, etc.  I love the idea of having a stick welder on hand for farm repairs too, but it might not be the best first welder.

I agree with pullstart, I used a Lincoln AC buzz box for years and got by, but that MIG is much better for finer work and such as we do on tractors. With the AC buzz box I like using the 7018AC rod, it really is strong and not to bad to weld with and the Lincoln brand worked the best.

A couple years ago I got a MIG / Stick Hybrid from Northern Tool. It is a inverter type and is much easier to operate. Really smooth and arc starting is much better. Just a flick of a switch and plug in the stick electrode holder and your welding with stick. best of both worlds.

Either way you will need a 50 amp 240v outlet.

And for the beginner that auto dim lens is wonderful.

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,065]

Eric,

i was also in a decision few months ago, if you read my „increase my Herd“ story, you maybe remember.

 

i searched a lot and i asked alot.

i can just stored it in shed, because not enough Space inside for Welding.

That means i just must weld Outside of any room, where Mig/Mag wasn‘t the best solution.

Here stickwelding or even better Fluxcore Welding has a huge advance.

 

Lastly i came up with an 220A Mig/Mag Welder in Ac/Dc.(Habour freight)

 

why?

simple i want a „cheap“ Welder, i can also using without any Gas.

therefore i can use Fluxcore or sticks to weld.

The Welding process between flux core and Mig/ Mag was just the speed of wire,

and the polarity what was good described and give me quick good results (except optics 😂 )

 

 

i welded 80% of my complete FEL Project with this Welder, just the Basement i let weld by a Professional.

It lasts, and i‘m satisfied with the Handlin* to do.

 (ok my seams not the nicest, honestly)

but it works for 3 operationmodes. Mig/Mag, Fluxcore and Stick welding.

I payed 320€ include shippin* and tax, what is here at my side a really cheap Welder.

 

better Welders start at 1000€ and up.

i decided 220A shoul be enough, the can 150A of continousecurrent, what seems enough Power.

 

if i use fully 220 A, i can Weld 60% continouse, what is also more than enough for Hobbyist Weldings.

it was able to use Wire between 0,6mm up to 0,9mm what is also mostly enough.

 

i welded also 2 heavy loaded Parts by Fluxcore, they last without problem.

 

the bigges difference between flux and stick welding was the slag, what is at fluxcore a percentage equal to Stick welding.

i see another advantage, each more you train, each better your seams in both Worlds, with or without Gas.

 

my personal experiences (my Welder seems same as Habor freight) 

i would immediately buy the Same machine again, because i love the handling.

 

Even outside with Fluxcore welding gives a lot of Fun, but please buy a good Automatic Helmet.

 

As BC Gold mentiones you just have one set of eyes.

 

 

 

i would give you my experiences and hope they will help.

Just my 2 cents

[WHX?? 49,190]

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

MIG is so much easier especially for sheet metal to 1/4"  anything 3/8" and thicker I do say stick... @WHX24 Jim get the bottle and spool of flux core wire then and you'll be set best of both worlds and yes you can use gas with the flux core stronger welds

The more I think about it I'm liken Mikey's idea of a multi purpose machine. I saw one somewhere and it wasn't that pricey. I wasn't looking too hard for a bottle fed one as the welding suppliers around most often are snobbish to the hobbyist lookin to swap a bottle out. In other words if you don't go through a bottle that fast they say the bottle pressure test outdates and then they drop their trousers on ya.  

Time to start lookin again... Thanks a lot for getting me to spend my disposable income EB!!!

[ebinmaine 68,483]

9 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Thanks a lot for getting me to spend my disposable income EB!!!

Yeah no worries Jim. Whatever I can do to help.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

28 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

The more I think about it I'm liken Mikey's idea of a multi purpose machine. I saw one somewhere and it wasn't that pricey. I wasn't looking too hard for a bottle fed one as the welding suppliers around most often are snobbish to the hobbyist lookin to swap a bottle out. In other words if you don't go through a bottle that fast they say the bottle pressure test outdates and then they drop their trousers on ya.  

Time to start lookin again... Thanks a lot for getting me to spend my disposable income EB!!!

Jim... I have really been eyeing this one... https://www.harborfreight.com/Unlimited-200-Professional-Multiprocess-Welder-with-120240-Volt-Input-64806.html... Not that bad of a price when you look at 3 machines in one.

[bc.gold 3,403]

Important things to consider, insulation class and duty cycle.

 

Duty cycle is a welding equipment specification which defines the number of minutes, within a 10 minute period, during which a given welder can safely produce a particular welding current. For example, a 150 amp. welder with a 30% duty cycle must be "rested" for at least 7 minutes after 3 minutes of continuous welding.

 

Here are the specs for that multi purpose welder.

 

GMAW/FCAW Rated Output: 120V; 90A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 22A Input 240V; 200A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 36A InputSMAW Rated Output: 120V; 70A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 24.9A Input 240V;170A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 33.6A InputGTAW Rated Output: 120V; 90A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 20.8A Input 240V; 200A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 28.7A InputAmperage range: 120V; 30-140A (GMAW/FCAW), 30-70A (DC SMAW), 20-90A (DC GTAW); 240V; 30-200A (GMAW/FCAW), 30-170A (DC SMAW), 20-200A (DC GTAW)

[ZXT 2,401]

I'll jump in on suggesting an old Lincoln cracker box welder. They pop up on craigslist for around $100 once in a while. They're the small block chevy of the welder world. Common, simple, and cheap.  For that kind of money, you can't really go wrong.. and you'll still have enough money left over to find you a wire welder should you want one!

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

38 minutes ago, bcgold said:

Important things to consider, insulation class and duty cycle.

 

Duty cycle is a welding equipment specification which defines the number of minutes, within a 10 minute period, during which a given welder can safely produce a particular welding current. For example, a 150 amp. welder with a 30% duty cycle must be "rested" for at least 7 minutes after 3 minutes of continuous welding.

 

Here are the specs for that multi purpose welder.

 

GMAW/FCAW Rated Output: 120V; 90A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 22A Input 240V; 200A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 36A InputSMAW Rated Output: 120V; 70A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 24.9A Input 240V;170A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 33.6A InputGTAW Rated Output: 120V; 90A @ 40% Duty Cycle; 20.8A Input 240V; 200A @ 15% Duty Cycle; 28.7A InputAmperage range: 120V; 30-140A (GMAW/FCAW), 30-70A (DC SMAW), 20-90A (DC GTAW); 240V; 30-200A (GMAW/FCAW), 30-170A (DC SMAW), 20-200A (DC GTAW)

Not saying it's in the league with the 480 volt machines I use at work but read the reviews especially the one supposedly from the professional pipe welder who was thoroughly impressed with this unit.

[Pullstart 63,109]

@bcgold is the bucket and plates and lye water thing similar to building a big battery and welding with that?  As I was explaining what a remanufacted battery is and how the plates begin to have a build up to my brother in-law today, I realized (I think) what you were talking about!

[oliver2-44 9,875]

6 hours ago, pfrederi said:

I will ad as a complete amateur welder I really like the DC capability.  A mentioned can be much easier striking an arc  got his for #35 at an auction. Didn't work well found it was wired for 440.  Fixed to 220 works great.  Miller Thunderbolt  AC/DC

 

 

Yes that the machine I have.  Very happy with it for the farm welder I am, just not thin stuff at my skill level.  My older brother is a very skilled welder and he did beautiful repairs on my big Oliver backhoe welding every direction.

 

On the Auto darkening helmets.  I bought a "Lincoln" lower price one and later learned the small watch sized battery in it was not replaceable. So I learned the hard way, in 2 years it was junk.  The next one I bought I made sure it had a replaceable battery.  

[bc.gold 3,403]

16 minutes ago, pullstart said:

@bcgold is the bucket and plates and lye water thing similar to building a big battery and welding with that?  As I was explaining what a remanufacted battery is and how the plates begin to have a build up to my brother in-law today, I realized (I think) what you were talking about!

 

Not quit the same, battery stores energy while the bucket welder needs a source.

 

The arc produced at the end of the welding rod behaves as you would expect from any AC welder, no where near what you would get from shorting out the mains.

 

I believe back in the day one pole transformer would service more than one house, our shack used  pair of screw in fuses with the threaded brass base cut and folded over, I've heard that some people would insert a copper penny to raise the amperage output.

 

The overhead wires coming from the house to the shop when using this welder would frequently melt then fall to the ground, I think our excessive electrical draw was also bothering the neighbors as Hydro came and installed a meter inside our house that had a circular paper graph with a pen register.

 

We never used the welder while this tattletale was in the house.

 

There was a shop in Edmonton that rebuilt lead acid battery's, coffee pot was always on and I found the work interesting.

 

This was about the time that glued plastic tops were becoming popular, units arriving would have the acid drained into a lead lined vat, bat tipped on its side then a bandsaw would nip the top off, leaving a bit of plastic that over lapped the bottom case and individual cells when glued

 

With a heat source the remnants were quickly removed, the open battery was refilled with acid then put on a charging rack, once charged it would be load tested.

 

Any bad cell would bubble off hydrogen, these cells were removed then discarded the remaining cells also were removed, the sperators between the plates were removed with new ones installed.

 

Each lead acid battery has a basin built into the case, as the plates age any material shedding off falls into the basin, if the battery is subject to rough usage, like not being properly secured and spending it life running on pot holed gravel roads.

 

The basin can fill beyond its capacity and when this happens the garbage will short out at the bottom of any plated residing above.

 

While the repairs and testing are taking place the acid in the vat has had time to settle out any garbage, this same acid is reused in the rebuilt battery's.

 

A brand new top was now glued onto the battery case then new posts were burned in. I remember the guy using a mold to form the posts.

 

The shop also rebuilt forklift battery's, the large cells were sealed with tar. Same deal a weak cell would reveal itself with bubbles

 

If you could purchase new tops and cases etc, it would be one of the least expensive business's to start up. For every battery sold you get the exchange.

 

[Pullstart 63,109]

4 minutes ago, bcgold said:

 

Not quit the same, battery stores energy while the bucket welder needs a source.

 

The arc produced at the end of the welding rod behaves as you would expect from any AC welder, no where near what you would get from shorting out the mains.

 

I believe back in the day one pole transformer would service more than one house, our shack used  pair of screw in fuses with the threaded brass base cut and folded over, I've heard that some people would insert a copper penny to raise the amperage output.

 

The overhead wires coming from the house to the shop when using this welder would frequently melt then fall to the ground, I think our excessive electrical draw was also bothering the neighbors as Hydro came and installed a meter inside our house that had a circular paper graph with a pen register.

 

We never used the welder while this tattletale was in the house.

 

There was a shop in Edmonton that rebuilt lead acid battery's, coffee pot was always on and I found the work interesting.

 

This was about the time that glued plastic tops were becoming popular, units arriving would have the acid drained into a lead lined vat, bat tipped on its side then a bandsaw would nip the top off, leaving a bit of plastic that over lapped the bottom case and individual cells when glued

 

With a heat source the remnants were quickly removed, the open battery was refilled with acid then put on a charging rack, once charged it would be load tested.

 

Any bad cell would bubble off hydrogen, these cells were removed then discarded the remaining cells also were removed, the sperators between the plates were removed with new ones installed.

 

Each lead acid battery has a basin built into the case, as the plates age any material shedding off falls into the basin, if the battery is subject to rough usage, like not being properly secured and spending it life running on pot holed gravel roads.

 

The basin can fill beyond its capacity and when this happens the garbage will short out at the bottom of any plated residing above.

 

While the repairs and testing are taking place the acid in the vat has had time to settle out any garbage, this same acid is reused in the rebuilt battery's.

 

A brand new top was now glued onto the battery case then new posts were burned in. I remember the guy using a mold to form the posts.

 

The shop also rebuilt forklift battery's, the large cells were sealed with tar. Same deal a weak cell would reveal itself with bubbles

 

If you could purchase new tops and cases etc, it would be one of the least expensive business's to start up. For every battery sold you get the exchange.

 

 

Wow!  Feel free to begin a post on how you rebuild a fork lift battery!  Please tag me if you do!  I have a free Hilo, just needs a battery gone through!

[WHX?? 49,190]

Thanks Billy that is a good recommendation  and I appreciate it.  Let's keep in mind here EB nor I ain't exactly lookin to build a lye generator to start nuclear fusion nor want flux  capacitors for time travel ... we just are lookin for a basic welder to stick  our front weights on with. Farmer welds might be a key word here...just sayin...

I'm thinkin stay the advice of our elders here EB and look for a older tombstone to lay down some beads. Get one, practice frying eggs and you will be ok. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by WHX24

[ZXT 2,401]

33 minutes ago, bcgold said:

 

Not quit the same, battery stores energy while the bucket welder needs a source.

 

The arc produced at the end of the welding rod behaves as you would expect from any AC welder, no where near what you would get from shorting out the mains.

 

I believe back in the day one pole transformer would service more than one house, our shack used  pair of screw in fuses with the threaded brass base cut and folded over, I've heard that some people would insert a copper penny to raise the amperage output.

 

The overhead wires coming from the house to the shop when using this welder would frequently melt then fall to the ground, I think our excessive electrical draw was also bothering the neighbors as Hydro came and installed a meter inside our house that had a circular paper graph with a pen register.

 

We never used the welder while this tattletale was in the house.

 

There was a shop in Edmonton that rebuilt lead acid battery's, coffee pot was always on and I found the work interesting.

 

This was about the time that glued plastic tops were becoming popular, units arriving would have the acid drained into a lead lined vat, bat tipped on its side then a bandsaw would nip the top off, leaving a bit of plastic that over lapped the bottom case and individual cells when glued

 

With a heat source the remnants were quickly removed, the open battery was refilled with acid then put on a charging rack, once charged it would be load tested.

 

Any bad cell would bubble off hydrogen, these cells were removed then discarded the remaining cells also were removed, the sperators between the plates were removed with new ones installed.

 

Each lead acid battery has a basin built into the case, as the plates age any material shedding off falls into the basin, if the battery is subject to rough usage, like not being properly secured and spending it life running on pot holed gravel roads.

 

The basin can fill beyond its capacity and when this happens the garbage will short out at the bottom of any plated residing above.

 

While the repairs and testing are taking place the acid in the vat has had time to settle out any garbage, this same acid is reused in the rebuilt battery's.

 

A brand new top was now glued onto the battery case then new posts were burned in. I remember the guy using a mold to form the posts.

 

The shop also rebuilt forklift battery's, the large cells were sealed with tar. Same deal a weak cell would reveal itself with bubbles

 

If you could purchase new tops and cases etc, it would be one of the least expensive business's to start up. For every battery sold you get the exchange.

 

Yep, people put copper pennies under the fuses.. to keep them from doing their job! It didn't raise the amperage output as much as it just bypassed the fuse all together. That's the main reason why fuse panels are frowned upon today. Fuses are far more reliable than breakers, but they're a lot easier to defeat. You probably had a 20a 240v service, and in addition to everything already pulling off of it in the house, you were likely pulling twice what the service was rated for. It's a wonder the place didn't burn down!

[bc.gold 3,403]

26 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Thanks Billy that is a good recommendation  and I appreciate it.  Let's keep in mind here EB nor I ain't exactly lookin to build a lye generator to start nuclear fusion nor want flux  capacitors for time travel ... we just are lookin for a basic welder to stick  our front weights on with. Farmer welds might be a key word here...just sayin...

 

My apologies, my feeble mind tends to wander into the past.

 

EB would never regret buying a used AC/DC welder, in fact he should check the numbers on his electrode inventory if for some reason he were trying to burn a DC rod with an AC machine the welds may not be as expected.

[bc.gold 3,403]

1 minute ago, ZXT said:

Yep, people put copper pennies under the fuses.. to keep them from doing their job! It didn't raise the amperage output as much as it just bypassed the fuse all together. That's the main reason why fuse panels are frowned upon today. Fuses are far more reliable than breakers, but they're a lot easier to defeat. You probably had a 20a 240v service, and in addition to everything already pulling off of it in the house, you were likely pulling twice what the service was rated for. It's a wonder the place didn't burn down!

 

Wished I had a picture of the shack, when my father purchased the acreage in 1928 it was a one room shack he added another. The boards were all hand split cedar lengthwise with a shake roof. The walls were stuffed with ferns for insulation.

 

The outside never painted I think you fellas call it natural patina.

 

We had an old refrigerator made of wood it had a belt driven compressor and used sulfur dioxide for refrigerant A wood stove that as eventually converted to oil using a keymack oil burner conversion kit.

 

Running cold water with hot water off the stove.

 

The shop was divided into several compartments, tool shed, woodshed, blacksmith shop with a chicken coup running backside the full length of the building.

 

A metal lathe, drill press, compressor welder along with an assortment of electrical hand tools, and a large scrap pile that never seemed to dwindle in size no matter how many projects were pulled from it.

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,065]

I would try the Welder.

 

i you have a possibillity Eric, try the Welder before buy.

best thing you can do before you buy is to try out, if you become familar with your new Unit.

even if you buy a cheaper system, i think it‘s more important to take a look how it works.

in my case i can ( if i would drove 400km far) try it out before buy.

he also offers Welding courses, what also improved my meaning.

 

i didn‘t do it, but to have this ability, give me a better feeling while buying cheap.

 

 

As mentioned before i take

 

firstly a look on dutycycle for material, i need or have to Weld.

Second a closer look to max. Usability  and handling

(weight, and additional things you have to move or to take to weld ) so it‘s now a Inverter Welder with 3 options

Third also a big look onto price, as i know „you get what you payed for.“ but i want spend restricted money.

 

it‘s easy to spend a hundrets of $ for a welder, but it musn‘t.

 

Why only a Stick welder,

i found welding with sticks more complicated than Fluxcore Welding with a gun.

 

[ebinmaine 68,483]

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

would try the Welder.

 

i you have a possibillity Eric, try the Welder before buy

I won't even THINK about buying one I can't see working first.

 

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Welding courses

We looked for courses around here and there just aren't any.

I REALLY wish there was. I'd love to take one.

 

 

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Why only a Stick welder,

i found welding with sticks more complicated than Fluxcore Welding with a gun

 

Part of it is shear cost. Arc welders are often 1/2 the price of wire feed.

I already have some rod here and access to a bunch more cheap.

I can't use any type of gas because of near constant light breezes so I'm limited to flux core wire feed which for some reason just doesn't appeal to me.

Initial cost. Maintenance cost of tips and wire. Looks like it's VERY smoky.

 

Chances are nearly 100% that I'll eventually have a wire feed when I can weld indoors but that won't be for a few years.

 

Welding sheet metal for me will be rare.

It'll be almost all 1/8" to 1/4" with a little one way or the other occasionally.

 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

We looked for courses around here and there just aren't any.

I REALLY wish there was. I'd love to take one.                                           No vocational schools nearby for adult night classes?                                  

I can't use any type of gas because of near constant light breezes so I'm limited to flux core wire feed which for some reason just doesn't appeal to me.

Initial cost. Maintenance cost of tips and wire. Looks like it's VERY smokey.

Flux core is no more smokey than stick welding if that... And unless there's a constant 10 mph + breeze your gas won't be blown away the trick to that is use your body (or a sheet of plywood ect) as shield from the predominant wind direction... We use industrial fans constantly at work while MIG or TIG welding so being outside wouldn't be any different... as most mobile welding guys use gas wire welders as well as stick .

 

[Tractorhead 9,065]

Hi Eric,

While i do my Testweldings with different technics and after i welded my FEL, 

i liked the wire support even with Flux Core.

That is surely a bit more cost intensine, but handling is definitely much easier.

 

The smoke while Welding i found, is more less the same between Stick and Fluxcore.

Even it looks on some Vid‘s differently.

 

 

For quick Gas Weldings i used a Soda Club CO2 Bottle with an refilladapter, that fits to a normal Gas Armature.

so i be able to weld Few Parts without the cost of a full Weldinggasbottle, a Sodaclub is allway‘s in spare.

 

at light breeze i increased a bit the Flowrate, what was enough.

Started with 10l/min and on light breeze i increased to 12 or 14l/ min.

I also used @WVHillbilly520H tipp,used my Body as Windshield what worked fine for me.

 

As you know, i just can Weld outside because of Space, i just store the Welder in Shed.

 

[Achto 27,821]

21 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Just don't know if I should go flux core or gas?

 

Flux core SUCKS!!!    It is a very messy weld with a lot of spatter. If your going to buy a wire feed welder make sure that it is capable of using gas as some do not have this capability. The one & only advantage to flux core is that you can weld out side on a windy day. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Achto