The "Colossus" project

[bds1984 1,429]

9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

That's a legitimate possibility.

The duty cycle on a lot of mower gearboxes is not meant to be 100%.  

 

 

I may use pulleys to slow it down to 1800/2200 RPM internally. 

 

I have a few of those 90° gear boxes I've used over the years and they definitely have an RPM limit.  1800 RPM is it for the majority of them.  Surpluscenter.com has a good selection of them and be sure to keep the vent clear or POP goes the seals!

[ebinmaine 67,523]

Here's a few pics for perspective. 

The engine is setting approximately at static weight center over the red steering shaft. 

 

 

 

Mounting the engine block in this position would be easy enough. 

 

Keeping in mind the above info from @8ntruckand @Handy Don I had Trina help me place the engine in it's appropriate location.  

After poking around the interwebs I've seen that pillow blocks should be on the outside of the pulleys. 

 

Mounting a pair of pillow blocks for a countershaft/jackshaft would be possible with the right pieces of thick enough steel. 

 

If I used a pair of steel strips to attach the pair of pillow blocks to the frame I would have to remove a strip to install the transmission drive belt but it should be doable.  

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,523]

3 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

I have a few of those 90° gear boxes I've used over the years and they definitely have an RPM limit.  1800 RPM is it for the majority of them.  

Thanks for confirming that. 

I've found a few that had no listed limits.   

 

[Handy Don 12,232]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

pillow blocks should be on the outside of the pulleys

Interesting and news to me. In thinking about all the cantilevered pulleys I’ve been close to, they had flange bearings and that’s what I used (mounted on a well-secured 3/16” plate) when changing the flail’s driveline. Maybe those are more vibration resistant?

Depending on the final drive alignment, with the two pulleys on the shaft, probably at least one belt will be “between” the bearings and a nuisance to change

[bds1984 1,429]

13 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Thanks for confirming that. 

I've found a few that had no listed limits.   

 

You're welcome, Eric.  They're not cheap, and I'd hate to see someone waste their money.  
This is what I use here.  1800 RPM max but there are some that can handle 3600 RPM but are listed for 10HP max.  

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Interesting and news to me. In thinking about all the cantilevered pulleys I’ve been close to, they had flange bearings and that’s what I used (mounted on a well-secured 3/16” plate) when changing the flail’s driveline. Maybe those are more vibration resistant?

Depending on the final drive alignment, with the two pulleys on the shaft, probably at least one belt will be “between” the bearings and a nuisance to change

We use a lot of pillow block bearing in the fertilizer business for conveyors and things.  I believe that are forgiving to what I’ll call OUT OF ROUND wear. This also makes them greasable. Fertilizer eats everything and I have seen this pillow block style bearing where the bearing rides in a rubber type bushing take some pretty unbalanced out of balance rollers and shafts and just keep running.  Keep them greased and they just keep rolling.  Generally when we replace them the shafts going through the bearings are so ate up from the fertilizer along with the bearing themselves we don’t even try to unbolt them anymore. We just cut them with a torch and replace bearings and shaft all together    They work well 

[8ntruck 7,006]

7 hours ago, Handy Don said:

You’ll want to think about extending a solid brace off the frame to get that bearing closer to the pulley. Even a 1” shaft will have some deflection at 6” with 20+HP working on it via a pulley. And deflection will introduce vibration. And....bad.

  What he said.

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

3 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

  What he said.

That’s where the pillow ball bearing is the way to go.  Of course brace if you can but it will not have to be near as true as a comparable bearing in another variant 

[ebinmaine 67,523]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Depending on the final drive alignment, with the two pulleys on the shaft, probably at least one belt will be “between” the bearings and a nuisance to change

Your logic is right on the nuisance but it won't be disassembled often. 

Even at that it would only be a few bolts more than a standard Horse and pulling the pillow out.  

 

 

[19richie66 17,508]

I do think you will need to run some kind of brace under the frame to keep it from wanting to twist. It is just angle. I think with the right design of an “under-brace” , you could move the engine back a little to the left a smidge to gain back some offset. The weight of the pulleys, bearings and steel hanging off out there would offset it a little. Hope this makes sense or scents 😁

[ranger 1,750]

21 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm thinking something like this could be a good bet to transfer the direction of rotation.  

 

 

 

If you do go this route, you could perhaps use a pulley fixed to the crankshaft, with a belt driving one of two coupled pulleys attached to a remote countershaft. A second belt on the c/shaft pulleys returns the drive to a pulley freewheeling on crankshaft, similar to the Wheelhorse p.t.o. setup. This will allow you to install the right angle gearbox, (inline with the crank axis), and use a flexible coupling attached to the pulley and box input shaft. Gearing arranged through pulley sizes. Or you could use chains and sprockets instead for a more compact installation? The freewheeling pulley could run on needle roller bearings, or, because this pulley would be larger diameter for gear reduction, straight roller, or ball races could be fitted. It looks as though the crankshaft would be long enough! Mounting the gearbox this way would remove any side loading from the ‘overhung’ input shaft. The output shaft appears better supported with a bearing either side of the internal gear, so more tolerant of side loading. Another source of 90’ boxes could be say, a small BMW differential, one with flange mounted driveshafts? No problem with rpm or torque limits! I think they may have alloy casings, so maybe not too heavy?

[ebinmaine 67,523]

2 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

I do think you will need to run some kind of brace under the frame to keep it from wanting to twist. It is just angle. I think with the right design of an “under-brace

Absolutely agreed. 

I'll be running a full subframe from somewhere around the mid hitch to the rear of the rear tires.  

Minimum 6 points of attachment. 

The trailer hitch will be included in that.  

 

[ebinmaine 67,523]

2 hours ago, ranger said:

Another source of 90’ boxes could be say, a small BMW differential, one with flange mounted driveshafts? No problem with rpm or torque limits!

 

I looked at using a transmission or differential from other sources. 

I thought it might be interesting to have a choice of several more gears.  

My availability there is unfortunately limited without getting costly.  

[Oldskool 6,644]

Im trying to get caught up.

 

If the engine is mounted in a position that makes it easiest to run the drive belt, approximately how much extra weight is hanging over that side then the other?

[ebinmaine 67,523]

2 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

Im trying to get caught up.

 

If the engine is mounted in a position that makes it easiest to run the drive belt, approximately how much extra weight is hanging over that side then the other?

 

 

Literally. 

MORE than all of it. 

 

It won't work that way. 

[ebinmaine 67,523]

7 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

Im trying to get caught up.

 

If the engine is mounted in a position that makes it easiest to run the drive belt, approximately how much extra weight is hanging over that side then the other?

 

See post # 1815. That 'splains it.  

[Oldskool 6,644]

So if the weight is centered your drive pulley would be 4,5,or 6 inches past center of the trans driven pulley?

[ebinmaine 67,523]

1 minute ago, Oldskool said:

So if the weight is centered your drive pulley would be 4,5,or 6 inches past center of the trans driven pulley?

Yessir.  

[Oldskool 6,644]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Yessir.  

I think my vote would be a mash up of a mule drive and maybe tiller drive pulley bracket. I think it would be alot of extra weight with all the jackshafts and bearings. It would take up alot of extra space for those as well. 1 belt and 2 or 3 idler pulleys and I think you would have it.

[ebinmaine 67,523]

6 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

I think my vote would be a mash up of a mule drive and maybe tiller drive pulley bracket. I think it would be alot of extra weight with all the jackshafts and bearings. It would take up alot of extra space for those as well. 1 belt and 2 or 3 idler pulleys and I think you would have it.

 

Extra weight. Not an issue.  

Taking up space however, is. 

 

I'd like to do the "belt at 45⁰" method.....

In fact that would be preferred over other methods.  

 

But how does all this come to play with the space and angles I've got to work with there? 

[Oldskool 6,644]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

But how does all this come to play with the space and angles I've got to work with there? 

Something like this.

[Oldskool 6,644]

Not exactly this because this has the variator sheave which you don't have/need but this should give you an idea.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

I’m sure you’ll get it, good o’l “Yankee Ingenuity!”

[ebinmaine 67,523]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:00 AM, lynnmor said:

Do some more research on that part, my guess is that it will get hotteranhell after extended use.

On that Simplicity AGCO gearbox. 

I ordered it figuring if I didn't use here then I'd have other thoughts for a different project later. 

 

Turns out it's quite the rugged piece of equipment. 

 

Ratio is 2:3 or 3:2. 

18 teeth one side, 27 the other. 

 

It's meant to operate BOTH directions. 

 

It's Peerless factory rated at 20 HP and similar size models have been used at 22 HP.  

 

No final decisions yet but this definitely has legitimate usage possibility.  

 

[Pullstart 62,902]

So .666x or 1.5X speed?  Is this at the 1800 rpm input speed you mentioned before?