The "Colossus" project

[WHX?? 48,815]

OK since there is a bit of chatter here thought I would read to ketchup. Turns out I took it in the Heinze...

Just a bunch of palaver and nonsense about chainsaws & spiders... oh well.

Old saying EB in your defence... Rome wasn't built in a day...

Edited September 7, 2023 by WHX??
Speeling

[Pullstart 62,838]

57 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

The direction the engine faces is less important to me than good function. 

 

How would I see how an XI drive works?

 

 

Something like this…. But you could stick it on the right side vertically.

 

 

 

[WHX?? 48,815]

3 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Something like this…. But you could stick it on the right side vertically.

Can we apply that to racing mowers? 

 

[Achto 27,567]

@ebinmaine & @Pullstart If this was rated for higher horse power, it may be useful.

 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Gear-Reducers-Gearboxes/Gearboxes/10-HP-1-1-RA-3600-RPM-Same-Rotation-In-Out-Peerless-1000-014-D-Gearbox-13-1616-A.axd

[ebinmaine 67,444]

6 hours ago, Achto said:

@ebinmaine & @Pullstart If this was rated for higher horse power, it may be useful.

 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Gear-Reducers-Gearboxes/Gearboxes/10-HP-1-1-RA-3600-RPM-Same-Rotation-In-Out-Peerless-1000-014-D-Gearbox-13-1616-A.axd

 

Dan I do have a Peerless 90⁰ gearbox out of a Toro Grounds Master but I think it's too rusted to save.  

 

I looked at the 32 HP rated units on Surplus Center. 

They're max input is 1800 RPM. I could solve that by using a drive/driven pulley of  the right ratio both in and out of the box. 

[ebinmaine 67,444]

Found this Porsche pic 

 

 

[Pullstart 62,838]

See, there you go!  

[ebinmaine 67,444]

 

 

 

 

In that video clip above I would have to reverse the belt for the correct orientation

[squonk 41,076]

13 hours ago, WHX?? said:

 

Old saying EB in your defence... Rome wasn't built in a day...

The chunnel took 6 years to build. We are now on year #4 on Colossus! 

[ebinmaine 67,444]

20 minutes ago, squonk said:

The chunnel took 6 years to build. We are now on year #4 on Colossus! 

So I'm still 2 ahead!! 

[ebinmaine 67,444]

I'm thinking something like this could be a good bet to transfer the direction of rotation.  

 

 

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm thinking something like this could be a good bet to transfer the direction of rotation.  

 

Do some more research on that part, my guess is that it will get hotteranhell after extended use.

[ebinmaine 67,444]

1 minute ago, lynnmor said:

Do some more research on that part, my guess is that it will get hotteranhell after extended use.

That's a legitimate possibility.

The duty cycle on a lot of mower gearboxes is not meant to be 100%.  

 

 

I may use pulleys to slow it down to 1800/2200 RPM internally. 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,545]

Just wondering if you are overthinking this engine orientation thing... ? 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,444]

3 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Just wondering if you are overthinking this engine orientation thing... ? 

 

 

 

 

I over think pretty much everything so the short answer is yes.  

 

 

That said...

This engine is BIG.

It's several inches wider taller and longer than anything ever put in a Wheelhorse.

 

It's HEAVY.

This beast is full cast iron and steel except the cylinder heads and carburetor.

 

If one were  to install this engine with the pulley system in a lined up position the static weight center would be several inches on the OUTSIDE of the left hand frame rail. 

 

 

And I will be able to USE this machine. In the woods. Tilted. 

So it really needs to be balanced right.

 

With the knowledge base i have that leaves me with two possibilities.

Utilize some sort of right angle power transmission.

Offset the engine 6 or 8 inches to the right and use pillow blocks and an idler shaft with two pulleys to realign the belt to the transmission.  

 

 

[Handy Don 12,215]

6 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Offset the engine 6 or 8 inches to the right and use pillow blocks and an idler shaft with two pulleys to realign the belt to the transmission.

This.

My instinct would be to center the mass of the engine and use a jackshaft to get the final drive alignment you want. i’d also look at having the main (or secondary?) PTO come off the jackshaft, if that made things more compact or convenient.

[ebinmaine 67,444]

23 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

This.

My instinct would be to center the mass of the engine and use a jackshaft to get the final drive alignment you want. i’d also look at having the main (or secondary?) PTO come off the jackshaft, if that made things more compact or convenient.

 

I'll have to look at getting a couple of double pulleys included in that in case I want to use one to drive something later.  

 

On my cross shaft now...

How does one figure out the diameter needed for the right strength? This one's going to have a fair amount of leverage on one end and it would be handy if it was the same size as the engine crankshaft for pulley swapping reasons later.

I think that's around 1 and 1/8 or 1 1/4.

 

[Handy Don 12,215]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

On my cross shaft now...

How does one figure out the diameter needed for the right strength? This one's going to have a fair amount of leverage on one end and it would be handy if it was the same size as the engine crankshaft for pulley swapping reasons later.

I think that's around 1 and 1/8 or 1 1/4.

I agree with close to crankshaft sizing if your intent is to transmit ALL of the engine's power through that shaft at something close to the engine’s RPM.

If the RPMs will be noticeably lower, then go to the larger diameter (and vice versa).

Edited September 13, 2023 by Handy Don

[kpinnc 12,008]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I over think pretty much everything so the short answer is yes.  

 

I should have a t-shirt with that printed on it... 

 

...as a warning label!

[8ntruck 6,998]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

I agree with close to crankshaft sizing if your intent is to transmit ALL of the engine's power through that shaft at something close to the engine’s RPM.

If the RPMs will be noticeably lower, then go to the larger diameter (and vice versa).

You will want to pay attention to the bearing location on the shaft, too.  Be best to keep the bearings near the pulleys and not have several inches of cantilevered shaft between a pulley and a bearing.

[ebinmaine 67,444]

1 minute ago, 8ntruck said:

You will want to pay attention to the bearing location on the shaft, too.  Be best to keep the bearings near the pulleys and not have several inches of cantilevered shaft between a pulley and a bearing.

Understood and agreed but I won't have a choice on one end.  

The inner pulley that feeds the transmission will be right beside a pillow block but the outer one that is driven by the engine will be More than 6" out.  

[JCM 9,132]

I'm getting dizzy reading all of this.It may be time for a night cap even though it's still light out. I'm going to find you a C-195 where you are a fan of Kohlers and large diameter rear tires and get out in your property and start enjoying your land instead of working on WH's. Enjoy life, it's way to short. There, now I don't need that nightcap. Thanks for letting me vent .  Get going on that F-250  Brother 

[ebinmaine 67,444]

3 minutes ago, JCM said:

I'm going to find you a C-195 where you are a fan of Kohlers and large diameter rear tires and get out in your property and start enjoying your land instead of working on WH's. Enjoy life,

 

I'll take BOTH of those. 

A Super C would be cool. 

And.... I LOVE working on Wheelhorses.  

I know I know. 

I'm a bit twisted. 

🤪

[Handy Don 12,215]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Understood and agreed but I won't have a choice on one end.  

The inner pulley that feeds the transmission will be right beside a pillow block but the outer one that is driven by the engine will be More than 6" out.  

You’ll want to think about extending a solid brace off the frame to get that bearing closer to the pulley. Even a 1” shaft will have some deflection at 6” with 20+HP working on it via a pulley. And deflection will introduce vibration. And....bad.

[ebinmaine 67,444]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

You’ll want to think about extending a solid brace off the frame to get that bearing closer to the pulley. Even a 1” shaft will have some deflection at 6” with 20+HP working on it via a pulley. And deflection will introduce vibration. And....bad.

 

Agreed.  

 

I'll take some measurements and see what we can come up with.