HY-2 Woes continue

[adsm08 2,022]

So I still can't keep this pump sealed.

 

In the next few days I am going to take it apart again for the last time, to inspect the return spring (which doesn't feel right) and replace the shaft seal if the spring is still in place. If this shaft seal gets burnt up and it starts leaking again I am going to look into replacing it with an electric unit mounted under the seat in the tool box area.

 

Does anyone know the output pressure/volume of the HY2/3 units, or of a good electric pump to use in its place?

[953 nut 55,091]

@Lane Ranger did a good thread on rebuilding these a while back, do a search on here.

[adsm08 2,022]

13 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

@Lane Ranger did a good thread on rebuilding these a while back, do a search on here.

 

I have read through that thread.

 

My main issue is that my return spring holes are wallowed, and my best attempts to build a bushing to repair those holes have failed. I have talked to my usual welders about plug welding the holes and re-drilling them but they all express concerns about warping the pump head. I don't know if that is a valid concern or not, I'm not a welder, but this is a big old chunk of iron, doesn't seem to me it would warp easily.

[Mike'sHorseBarn 2,990]

Sometimes the shaft itself gets worn and when it gets worn too bad, it will leak regardless unless you replace the shaft and the oil seals again. 

[adsm08 2,022]

1 minute ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

Sometimes the shaft itself gets worn and when it gets worn too bad, it will leak regardless unless you replace the shaft and the oil seals again. 

 

 

You got a source for that shaft?

[Lane Ranger 10,946]

adsm08 : Can you post a picture or two of what you have for a piston/cylinder in your Hein-Werner pump?

Which spring and piston do you have?

 

The early pumps had what I call the rabbit ear springs.    These two pistons (icall the inner cylinder a piston) both use the rabbit ear spring.   One with the threaded                                                                         handle and one with the flat handle  (for Up and Down motion)  with two machine screws.

 

The last two pics of the outside housing are from a very early 953  pump  that was one inch wider in the fluid housing than the later Hein-Werner pumps.

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Lane Ranger

[Mike'sHorseBarn 2,990]

11 hours ago, adsm08 said:

 

 

You got a source for that shaft?

 

Not at all, I just deal with mine leaking lol Finding a shaft would be rather difficult i think.

[stevasaurus 22,711]

Mine leaked also after re-building.  I've been meaning to tear back into it, but have not done it.  I have just kept a rag tucked in under the leak.  Guess what...I have discovered that the canister does not have to be full to work properly.  The level must be low enough that it has stopped leaking and the piston still raises and lowers the snow blade as it should.  It was November 2009 when I rebuilt mine, and I have not added any fluid since the re-build.  I use my 702 all year long with mowing and snow blade use.    Maybe just let it leak and see if it stops.  You will know by the lift lever if it is not getting enough oil.

 

 

[adsm08 2,022]

14 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

adsm08 : Can you post a picture or two of what you have for a piston/cylinder in your Hein-Werner pump?

Which spring and piston do you have?

 

The early pumps had what I call the rabbit ear springs.    These two pistons (icall the inner cylinder a piston) both use the rabbit ear spring.   One with the threaded                                                                         handle and one with the flat handle  (for Up and Down motion)  with two machine screws.

 

The last two pics of the outside housing are from a very early 953  pump  that was one inch wider in the fluid housing than the later Hein-Werner pumps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some pictures I took on first tear down.

 

 

 

 

And what I believe to be the root of my issues:

 

 

 

 

The pics of my cylinder are not great, but it looks like the same as the one on the right of you first few pictures.

[WHX?? 48,789]

Talk to Lowell @wheelhorseman, He collects (read hoards)  pumps and has parts and maybe even the shaft. I know he has the gears.

[Lane Ranger 10,946]

adsm08:   I sent you a PM  with more photos!

Edited August 13, 2019 by Lane Ranger

[adsm08 2,022]

Alright. I have a pump assembled and installed, how do you prime and purge them?

 

The cylinder should have been full, I put about 3/4 of a quart of fluid in the pump itself and it seems like it wants to work, but it doesn't. When I cycle the handle rearward the lower hose (should be for extending) flexes and gets hard, but the other line does not when I go forward with the handle. I can get it to spit a little bit of fluid out the upper fitting, but no flow.

 

I removed the pressure spring to inspect the ball. It looked fairly clean. I could not remove it (couldn't get it out) but I stuck a long straight pick in the hole and it seemed like I could roll the ball around pretty freely.

 

Could I just be low on fluid still? Might I need to pull it all back apart and pack the gears with petroleum jelly?

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Hangin on here, to help you because your ask in „what have you done“ thread.

 

because you spreaded your info‘s in several threads, 

please give me again a summary, of what‘s happen.

as far as i found out, you have a Hydro, that leaks. After rebuild it won‘t working, i‘m correct? 

 

 

 

[adsm08 2,022]

3 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Hangin on here, to help you because your ask in „what have you done“ thread.

 

because you spreaded your info‘s in several threads, 

please give me again a summary, of what‘s happen.

as far as i found out, you have a Hydro, that leaks. After rebuild it won‘t working, i‘m correct? 

 

 

 

You are essentially correct. The pump has two double-flared hydraulic fittings, one for each direction the ram it controls needs to move.

 

I had a bad fluid leak, and a damaged retaining hole for the valve return spring, installed a whole new pump head, reused the control valve from my otherwise functioning pump, and now I only have fluid flow out of the horizontally oriented port, and not the vertical one. What has me truly baffled is that aside from the threaded hole exiting the pump both ports seem to use the same fluid passages.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Are you sure, you rebuild it correctly, means Piston in right direction and similar,

or is it impossible to mount it wrong.

 

I just told you im not familar with that pump, so i just can guide you maybe a bit in right direction.

 

I just wondered that fluid comes out of both sides, i think a valve or a bore will be set worse.

 

i believe to read, the head of pump is also changed.

Did you compare, if all bores and in‘s and outs are fit and set in right direction?

 

virified with your old head to compare if it than works right?

Edited September 14, 2019 by Tractorhead
Added Text

[adsm08 2,022]

2 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Are you sure, you rebuild it correctly, means Piston in right direction and similar,

or is it impossible to mount it wrong.

 

I just told you im not familar with that pump, so i just can guide you maybe a bit in right direction.

 

 

The control valve really only fits one way. It could be installed 180* of rotation off, but then you couldn't install the handle.

 

I am wondering very much if the issue is that I either have the lines reversed, or the system is air bound. I have tried putting the lines on both ways, with no change in operation, and I can't find any directions for purging air from the system.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Most Hydraulic systems i know needs just a bit of fluid in the pump,

to improve the suction, then the system self bleeding.

 

the bleeding was done into Oiltank.

after few movements, you have to wait a bit, until air was bleeded out of fluid.

 

[adsm08 2,022]

7 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Most Hydraulic systems i know needs just a bit of fluid in the pump,

to improve the suction, then the system self bleeding.

 

the bleeding was done into Oiltank.

after few movements, you have to wait a bit, until air was bleeded out of fluid.

 

 

Right, that has been my experience as well, and the first time I rebuilt this pump that's all it took. Air-lock is one of the things listed in the manufacturer's symptom chart as a cause for noise or non-operation, with a repair direction of "purge air" but then no instructions are ever given for actually doing that.

 

I did find a post a week or so ago that said the full instruction set for this pump was buried in the manual for one of the tractors, but I can't remember which on, or find the post again.

Edited September 14, 2019 by adsm08

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Did you make some picts while disassembling the pump?

I do this allway‘s to verify things, i think they clear and after reassembling it seems unclear.

 

 

[adsm08 2,022]

Just now, Tractorhead said:

Did you make some picts while disassembling the pump?

I do this allway‘s to verify things, i think they clear and after reassembling it seems unclear.

 

 

 

The first time I did take a bunch of pictures. The ones I have posted here are in this thread.

 

 

 

After going through it a few times it seems to be a very straight forward device though.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

It canot be happen, ain’t 

bring that thing to run back again.

 

[AMC RULES 37,130]

You have to have a local hydraulic repair shop that could give you some guidance getting your pump back up on its feet.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by AMC RULES

[Tractorhead 9,064]

I agreed with AMC RULES, to ask for guidance isn‘t a shame at all

and mostly they help you with simple tipps up on Wheels.

 

 

[adsm08 2,022]

There is only one place I can find when I search, there is no business page, just a chamber of commerce listing, and an address search brings up a septic company at that address.

 

I know the place, it is just around the corner from my house, and it isn't a multi-business complex, unless someone is renting some space for a small repair shop in the septic company's building.

 

After that all I get is automotive lift service and installation companies.

 

 

I have no problems asking for help, I just can't find anyone to ask. I was told about one guy who knows these units inside and out, but I am having trouble contacting him because I can't remember his name, and the only on-line presence I know of is as part of the FB group Wheel Horse Junkies, which is a closed group.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Found another interesting Pict, that may can help you out.

 

 

Here it seems the complete Hydraulics was described or pictured as explodin* view.

 

this was in Follow Thread 

 

and was posted by Casual Observer.

 

May he have this Pict in a bigger or better resolution.

can may be helpful.

 

As for your Pump, it wasn‘t a Vane pump, and gearpumps are self sucked.

as far as you do a bit oil in before remounting.

otherwise it could be a problem while air want bleed.

( an issue i hade once.) 

 

Added - 

 

i would again reassemble the whole system, just to be sure all is properly done.

 

Disassemble the Piston, and the Gears out of pump ( please take care they‘re sensitive).

 

Blow with Airgun each channel, if they free, maybe some dirt was fallen in while take pict or so on.

if all channels are free, set in the Gear ( hope you marked them while first disassembling)

they align together sometimes marked with a spot or similar.

 

then filled the Gear with Stronger oil, that they prelubricated an have a first „Gasket for bleeding“

this few drips are independently what kind of oil 

 

next verify the spring on piston, right inserted, piston seems to be just possible in one direction, given by thread for the lever. pistonspring in right direction - seems also be given by space.

 

Next issue is there a Oilfilter in (permanentfilter maybe) can it be exchanged or blown reverse.

 

The Attached external lines are they clean?

 

filled the whole system with hydrauli+ fluid and it shall bleed immediately.

have a stop after ab. 5 min of bleeding, the air can release hydraulic fluid for about 30 min.

if you’re a smoker, have a coffe and a lazy cigarette, then next step and here we go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Tractorhead
Added Text.