K582S. Will it run? YESSS!!!

[ebinmaine 70,699]

This is the engine that sits in the homemade generator trailer that I got from the auction almost a year ago. Over the last month I've been soaking bolts with penetrating oil and today I finally got the generator portion out of the trailer.

 

It started to rain before I got a chance to make a schematic wiring diagram but it looks pretty simple. Self contained. Panel on the front is the control and off/on.

 

I'll get that schematic done at some point. One question I do have.

 

Considering there is no positive and negative side on these coils, where does the condenser connect? It was on the lead that goes to the points cover. The other lead goes to the on-off switch.

 

No one has any idea how old is thing is but the widow of the man whose items were being auctioned off was unfamiliar with it and it was buried in the back of a shed full of scrap metal.

She seemed to think it had not been touched for at least 20 years, or more.

 

I'm not at all interested in the generator. I really only bought it for the trailer to use for us in our logging. If the motor runs... HUGE BONUS.

 

I do know that I need to connect battery positive to the solenoid and battery negative to a decent ground.

The oil in it although aged, looks fantastic.

I'm going to remove the fuel inlet system and clean it out a little.

 

Other than that, what should I be looking for?

 

Here's a few pics.

 

 

 

Here's a couple shots of the coil that was on it. I bought a cheap flea Bay Harley replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by ebinmaine

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

Service manual and operator manual

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?&q="k582"&type=downloads_file&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy

 

Garry

[Pullstart 64,495]

Eric, I would believe the condenser would be on the points side, as that’s normally the ground.  Best of luck, I have a very similar generator with a monster Kohler on it sitting for a rainy day shop project...  it was run on LP gas though!

[ebinmaine 70,699]

2 hours ago, pullstart said:

condenser would be on the points side, as that’s normally the ground

That makes me feel better.

That's where it was.

I dunno why but I was thinking it should have been the opposite.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

The WH tractors using the Onan P-Series  engines with electronic ignition have a condenser on the positive side. Likely there to suppress voltage spikes.

 

Garry

[ebinmaine 70,699]

Spent a few more minutes working on the monster today.

There was a mud dauber wasp nest in the end of the fuel inlet. I decided to take that off and cleaned it out. Then I got looking at the fuel filter setup....

 

The underside of the baseplate had some uhh.... Stuff in it...

 

I took it off as well and am VERY glad I did so.

There was another mud nest inside that as well. I also figured out that the spring holding the fuel filter in place is missing. Hence, there would have been NO fuel filtration.

I removed that entire assembly.

I'll replace it with a new plastic filter.

 

 

I also made up a couple of new plug wires for it.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

I just ran a set of jumper cables from the Cinnamon Horse to this engine. The starter drive was stuck in place but I freed it up a little bit of penetrating oil n' a screwdriver.

With the spark plugs out so it will turn quicker it builds 40 lb of oil pressure.

Working on a compression test now. 

 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

Compression varies quite a bit. standing in front of the engine the right-hand cylinder which would be the back one in a tractor, is at 125. The other one is substantially lower. 95 lb.

[pfrederi 18,324]

Put some oil in it the weak cylinder and try again. No change a valve issue...gets bettor rings or cylinder wall.  or do a leak down test

[ebinmaine 70,699]

25 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Put some oil in it the weak cylinder and try again. No change a valve issue...gets bettor rings or cylinder wall.  or do a leak down test

Thanks Paul. I'll try that in the next couple days.

How long do I leave the oil in the cylinder? Just immediately do the test after I dump the oil in?

 

 

I did figure out tonight that it is not getting spark because the on-off switch is broken to the open position.

Once I get that rectified I'll do a spark test.

[pfrederi 18,324]

Pour in the oil replace and torque the plug and test.

[bds1984 1,466]

Eric, it wouldn't hurt to let the engine sit for a day or two once you poured in some oil.  I've sprayed plenty of penetrating oil into a cylinder before and let an engine sit for a day or two before I performed a compression test.  

[pfrederi 18,324]

8 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

Eric, it wouldn't hurt to let the engine sit for a day or two once you poured in some oil.  I've sprayed plenty of penetrating oil into a cylinder before and let an engine sit for a day or two before I performed a compression test.  

 

 

I have to somewhat disagree here. I am assuming the engine cranks over.  Penetrating oil tends to be very thin.  What you need for this test is to help seal loose rings and scored cylinder walls.  Penetrating oil left for time will pass by the rings and other loose spots and not function as a temporary seal and is more likely to be pushed out by compression.   Regular motor oil 30w  ( or even a bit of STP/Motor honey) will temporarily seal things for the test much better.  A leak down test will give a more accurate assessment.

[bds1984 1,466]

Yes, but if a ring is stuck/gummed up from sitting, the penetrating oil will help loosen them up which was my intent before the motor oil trick.  There is nothing said that one cannot pour in their flavor of motor oil afterwards.

[pfrederi 18,324]

I guess it is a sequencing issue testing vs trying to fix.  i was just trying to show how to test to find if it is a ring/cylinder problem vs a valve issue.  If the test revealed a ring /cylinder then penetrating oil as a potential fix is a good idea.

[ebinmaine 70,699]

@pfrederi and  @bds1984

And others...

 

I performed the wet compression test this evening and the results show that the rings are worn some.

Facing the engine:

Left cylinder, dry. 95 lb

Left cylinder, wet. 105 lb

Right cylinder, dry. 125 lb

Right cylinder, wet. 140 lb

 

Following this test I started delving into why I had no spark.

The other night I had replaced the switch that turns the coils off and on.

 

Still no spark.

 

Took the points cover off and looked at them. FILTHY!

Checked continuity and result was the same open or closed.

0 continuity.

 

Sanded the points.

 

Had spark! I know this because my thumb got belted.

I also know this because I was using an actual spark checker.

But believe me when I say the belted thumb was definitely a more positive indication than any light bulb I've ever seen before.

 

I messed around for an hour or two after that and eventually got the engine to run for a few seconds by pouring gasoline directly into the carb throat.

Maybe two or three seconds was the longest run and it sounded great.

 

 

I have figured out that it will ONLY run with the choke very nearly closed.

 

I'll order a carb rebuild kit and see what happens after that.

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

I don't know if it shows in any of the pictures but the tire on the right hand side that is close to that concrete block had about 500 cracks in it.

I swapped another wheel & tire on to that so I could roll the trailer around.

 

I had Trina give me a hand and we rolled the whole assembly into the workshop shed after I cleared space in there a little.

 

Took a couple pictures for documentation and removed the carburetor. You can see that in another thread. :-). Ouch.

 

 

 

 

 

[AHS 1,491]

19 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I don't know if it shows in any of the pictures but the tire on the right hand side that is close to that concrete block had about 500 cracks in it.

I swapped another wheel & tire on to that so I could roll the trailer around.

 

I had Trina give me a hand and we rolled the whole assembly into the workshop shed after I cleared space in there a little.

 

Took a couple pictures for documentation and removed the carburetor. You can see that in another thread. :-). Ouch.

 

 

 

 

 

WOW!! Ouch!! That sat for a year or two!!😄

[ebinmaine 70,699]

2 minutes ago, AHS said:

That sat for a year or two!!

Widow of the previous owner says at least 20, maybe 30 years.

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,360]

Eric , where do you purchase that blue fuel line ?

[ebinmaine 70,699]

15 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Eric , where do you purchase that blue fuel line ?

That is a stens product that I get from Lincoln at A to Z tractor.

@A-Z Tractor

 

 

I like to use a clear fuel line so I can see if the gasoline is moving.

 

[Pullstart 64,495]

Congrats Eric!

[AHS 1,491]

9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Widow of the previous owner says at least 20, maybe 30 years.

 

You have your work cut out for ya! 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

6 hours ago, AHS said:

You have your work cut out for ya! 

That could very well be true. It's all play time to me.

Building them. Working on them. Using them in the forest or in the yard. All play time.

[ebinmaine 70,699]

I ordered carburetor tune up parts and an air filter from Lincoln @A-Z Tractor this morning.

We'll get back to this thing in a few days and see if I can get it to run smooth.