Where would wheel horse/ toro be today?

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,513]

On 8/5/2019 at 8:22 PM, adsm08 said:

Unless you buy it at Lowes.

Incorrect.  All the John Deeres sold at Lowes and Home Depot are made by JD in Tennessee.  And those same models can be bought at a John Deere dealer for the same price you find them at the box stores.  Deere uses the Tennessee plant to make entry level tractors to compete against Sears, MTD, Murray and the other lower scale tractors made by Simplicity and others.  It's what the market wants and demands in today's environment.  The higher quality JDs are built in their plant in Horicion, Wisconsin, just has they have been since 1963.  That includes the X-series, which are great machines and will out mow about anything that was made 20 years ago and earlier.  And I had/have Wheel Horses, Cub Cadets, older JDs, etc.,....

[Retired Wrencher 5,535]

T-Mo-    Thanks for clearing that up about JD`s That big box stores carry. I thought that MTD Made those. I always enjoy your posts.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,513]

29 minutes ago, Retierd Wrencher said:

T-Mo-    Thanks for clearing that up about JD`s That big box stores carry. I thought that MTD Made those. I always enjoy your posts.

I know this is a Wheel Horse forum, but if anyone here is honest, there are some pros and cons to every brand, even Wheel Horse.  To say one is better than another brand, is pure nonsense.  I don't care much for Ford, but to say they're inferior to a Chevrolet would be wrong.  Same for Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Simplicity, Kubota, and yes, even John Deere.

 

To get back on topic, if Toro still made lawn and garden tractors, it wouldn't be the design of the older Wheel Horse.  It would probably be a lot of plastic, aluminum transmissions, maybe even Tuff-Torq's K46 light duty transmission, and it wouldn't be as durable nor built for longevity.  When Toro killed the Wheel Horse line, they also stop all production of the other Toro designed lawn and garden tractors.  They turned to MTD to build their tractors for a couple of years then.  Right now, I don't believe Toro builds lawn and garden tractors, nor have any branded ones, as they turned to walk behinds and zero turns.

 

Today's market has changed from even 20 years ago.  With SCUTs and CUTs being built by a lot of manufacturers, and with more and more people buying zero turn mowers, the market does not demand a heavy duty garden tractor.  Oh, Simplicity, Kubota, and John Deere still makes heavy duty garden tractors, but the prices of those places them to where a SCUT would be a better and more attractive, as well as cost effective, alternative.  I doubt a new Wheel Horse, built along a similar design of the Classic Wheel Horse, would sell very well and would be too expensive to build with profit margins in mind.

[Retired Wrencher 5,535]

23 hours ago, T-Mo said:

I know this is a Wheel Horse forum, but if anyone here is honest, there are some pros and cons to every brand, even Wheel Horse.  To say one is better than another brand, is pure nonsense.  I don't care much for Ford, but to say they're inferior to a Chevrolet would be wrong.  Same for Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Simplicity, Kubota, and yes, even John Deere.

 

To get back on topic, if Toro still made lawn and garden tractors, it wouldn't be the design of the older Wheel Horse.  It would probably be a lot of plastic, aluminum transmissions, maybe even Tuff-Torq's K46 light duty transmission, and it wouldn't be as durable nor built for longevity.  When Toro killed the Wheel Horse line, they also stop all production of the other Toro designed lawn and garden tractors.  They turned to MTD to build their tractors for a couple of years then.  Right now, I don't believe Toro builds lawn and garden tractors, nor have any branded ones, as they turned to walk behinds and zero turns.

 

Today's market has changed from even 20 years ago.  With SCUTs and CUTs being built by a lot of manufacturers, and with more and more people buying zero turn mowers, the market does not demand a heavy duty garden tractor.  Oh, Simplicity, Kubota, and John Deere still makes heavy duty garden tractors, but the prices of those places them to where a SCUT would be a better and more attractive, as well as cost effective, alternative.  I doubt a new Wheel Horse, built along a similar design of the Classic Wheel Horse, would sell very well and would be too expensive to build with profit margins in mind.

Thanks for the info my old Toro 8 32 that I had was a great mower. Built very well steel frame. Tranny went on it and it was aluminum casting it lasted for many years I belive a 94.I have a new Cub all plastic hydro. Not rugged at all. Thanks for your post.

[Lee1977 6,857]

I think if Wheel Horses were still being built they would be at the same place as Cub Cadet X3 abd John Deere X500 nether offer ground ingageing equipment to do gardening.

Where is Wheel Horse now they are safe with us here at Red Square.

[870express 116]

On 8/8/2019 at 6:15 AM, T-Mo said:

I know this is a Wheel Horse forum, but if anyone here is honest, there are some pros and cons to every brand, even Wheel Horse.  To say one is better than another brand, is pure nonsense.  I don't care much for Ford, but to say they're inferior to a Chevrolet would be wrong.  Same for Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Simplicity, Kubota, and yes, even John Deere.

The more I get into my RJ-58, it looks like it was designed by a high school shop class.  Very simple design, but that also makes it easier to work on and I can fabricate some worn or missing parts from common, off-the-shelf materials.  The RJ-58 design met the need in 1958, but now it is purely nostalgia and sentimentalism.  I'll keep my John Deere LA-115, thank you very much.  It has served me well for 14 years.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

I think if Wheel Horses were still being built they would be at the same place as Cub Cadet X3 abd John Deere X500 nether offer ground ingageing equipment to do gardening.

Where is Wheel Horse now they are safe with us here at Red Square.

Simplicity Legacy XL... But then you might as well step up to a Kubota, Kioti or Mahindra sub compact 4wd with true cat 1 3pt hitch... Not much bigger than the xi series.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,513]

2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

I think if Wheel Horses were still being built they would be at the same place as Cub Cadet X3 abd John Deere X500 nether offer ground ingageing equipment to do gardening.

Where is Wheel Horse now they are safe with us here at Red Square.

Again, incorrect.  The John Deere X500 series has an option for an integral (sleeve) hitch, which allows buyers to select ground engaging equipment as moldboard plow, disk, rear blade, box blade, etc.

 

I didn't see a sleeve hitch option for the Cub Cadet X3, but I didn't look as I'm not interested in Cub Cadet's new products.

 

https://www.deere.com/en/attachments-accessories-and-implements/attachments-search-tool/#/us/en/lawn-garden/lawn-tractors/x500-series?type=Rear Hitch&p=1&sort=price%3AASC

[bds1984 1,452]

Cub Cadet has a sleeve hitch for the X3.  Kind of lame that it is manual lift.

 

https://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/cubcadet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=2268401&urlRequestType=Base&langId=-1&catalogId=14101

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,513]

5 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

Cub Cadet has a sleeve hitch for the X3.  Kind of lame that it is manual lift.

 

https://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/cubcadet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=2268401&urlRequestType=Base&langId=-1&catalogId=14101

Thanks, for the info on the Cub Cadet X3.  As I said, I haven't check into Cub Cadet's offerings, so it's good someone corrected the misinformation about them.  Thanks, again, for the info.

[Lee1977 6,857]

John Deere has a list of avabible equipment the x700 series is the only one they offer ground engageing equiptment.  If JD though it was a great ideal they would be selling the equipment. I think you are going to hear we don't recomand ground eingageing equipment with that model tractor when you break it. It looks like a cover JD rear plan to me. An that Cub Cadet sleeve hitch is the worst one I have every seen. As  has already said you can buy a subcompact for a little more than the cost of anything that can be called a Garden Tractor.

 

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,513]

9 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

John Deere has a list of avabible equipment the x700 series is the only one they offer ground engageing equiptment.  If JD though it was a great ideal they would be selling the equipment. I think you are going to hear we don't recomand ground eingageing equipment with that model tractor when you break it. It looks like a cover JD rear plan to me. An that Cub Cadet sleeve hitch is the worst one I have every seen. As  has already said you can buy a subcompact for a little more than the cost of anything that can be called a Garden Tractor.

 

 

Sorry, wrong again.  Look at the link I gave above - those are all attachments for the X500 series.  The X700 series has an option for a limited Category 1 hitch, which takes different attachments.  The attachments for the X500 are sleeve hitch type attachments, but they are still ground engaging attachments, plus you can buy sleeve hitch attachments anyplace, just not JDs.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

3 hours ago, bds1984 said:

Cub Cadet has a sleeve hitch for the X3.  Kind of lame that it is manual lift.

 

https://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/cubcadet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=2268401&urlRequestType=Base&langId=-1&catalogId=14101

Much like most the MTD built Craftsman models and who owns CCC, Even Simplicity (now owned by Briggs Corp) their garden tractors are horizontal shaft engines till you step up to the LegacyXL sub compact... https://www.simplicitymfg.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/lawn-tractors/prestige-garden-tractor.html

[Lee1977 6,857]

4 hours ago, T-Mo said:

Sorry, wrong again.  Look at the link I gave above - those are all attachments for the X500 series.  The X700 series has an option for a limited Category 1 hitch, which takes different attachments.  The attachments for the X500 are sleeve hitch type attachments, but they are still ground engaging attachments, plus you can buy sleeve hitch attachments anyplace, just not JDs.

I got my information from a chart posted by John Deere in there sale literature and they only had the X700 series listed for plows, cultvators and harrows.  You can call that  ground ingageing equipment if you want to, I'm sure you don't want my opinion of most of it.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Lee1977

[Horse Play 393]

12 hours ago, 870express said:

The more I get into my RJ-58, it looks like it was designed by a high school shop class.  Very simple design, but that also makes it easier to work on and I can fabricate some worn or missing parts from common, off-the-shelf materials.  The RJ-58 design met the need in 1958, but now it is purely nostalgia and sentimentalism.  I'll keep my John Deere LA-115, thank you very much.  It has served me well for 14 years.

 

Yes, I agree about the RJ's design/build quality as am finishing up a complete restoration on a RJ58, but Wheel Horse really improved leaps and bounds through the 1960's.  The RJs and Suburbans were a great stepping stones to the the front engine tractors that were the best combination of durable and simple.  I have a 1967 857 that I mow with for an hour every week and plow snow with in the winter. It is all original other that tires, belts, and battery.  

[Guest 88vic]

Husqvarna, John Deere, Ariens, the ones that are sold at the box stores are using a plastic encased transmission, made by a company called General Transmission. It has a variable belt type set up on it and a bunch of small plastic parts externally to make it function. Alot of grass/debris is building up and making them malfunction. They are barely making 30-40 operating hours and they are failing.  Im glad I have quality cast iron transmissions in all of my horses, I couldnt be prouder of my herd !

[Chris G 3,296]

Well after reading all of this, I'm just gonna say I think this has steered way off course and is seeming like a who knows what about what ordeal. But to the original topic, I would say I don't think wheelhorse would be around today regardless. Because the fact of times have changed way to much and with that being said. Wheel horse and many other brands from back 20 to 30 years ago were not building a good enough to get by riding mower. They were building small multi purpose garden tractors, with simplicity and dependability in mind. To appeal to total different generations than the present one. Machines of the past were built to allow people to have a better convenience to there home care and gardening and so on. They built there machines with pride and no belief of temporary or wasteful thoughts. That's just my opinion. 

[ohiofarmer 3,277]

Probably the biggest fail on the square hoods was the woodruff key  supposedly being enough to run a snow plow.

The later 3,4,500 series had that thin sheet metal transmission tunnel that could fail at the seat mounts and idler pulley wearing an oblong hole  around itself on the tunnel.

With the excellent build quality on the rest of the machine,it makes the weak areas stand out that much more. Just sayin'

[AHS 1,473]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:36 AM, Lee1977 said:

I think if Wheel Horses were still being built they would be at the same place as Cub Cadet X3 abd John Deere X500 nether offer ground ingageing equipment to do gardening.

Where is Wheel Horse now they are safe with us here at Red Square.

Yup! 👍🇺🇸