D200 sundstand pump 90-1173

[dropdown34 9]

Wheel Horse D200.  I got this from my father who passed away in 2007.  His first tractor was a Wheel Horse back in the early ‘60s.  I would like to keep it going.

Problem is the Pump is making a noise that does not sound good.  My best guess is a grinning noise.  At the same time, it didn’t seem like a grinning noise.  Anyway, I shut it down and pushed it in to my work shed and removed the engine from the pump.  The pump shaft turns by hand easy and nothing feels like it is grinning. 

What I was doing at the time was back grading with the snow blade.  Driving backward and holding down the hydraulic level for the snow blade.  I stopped and lifted the blade. I was just about to move forward when the noise appeared. 

Before I take this pump apart, has anyone experience this problem?  Anyone have an idea or how should I go about troubleshooting my problem? 

Help!

 

P.S.  I have no problem taking the pump apart, I just hope I can find parts to put it back together.  Reading other peoples’ comments, there are places that might help.  NOVA  and LJ Fluid.

[pfrederi 17,885]

Download the Service manual here it had excellent diagnostics.

 

 

 

 

As a wild guess holding the lift down may have caused a problem with the  implement relief valve spring as  you are holding a lot of pressure in the system. 900+ PSI 

Edited July 7, 2019 by pfrederi

[daveoman1966 3,762]

There are, of course, no gears inside the pump to create a 'grinding noise'.  That noise MAY have been a 'chattering' of the relief spring as suggested above.  Since you already have the engine off...80% of the job...it'd be a good idea to open and inspect the pump internals.  Surely, after 40+ years...there would be some service needed and now is the time to do it. The downloadable manual is a good too.  When you open the pump, it is likely that the soft brass surfaces will need refinished...(piston slippers and valve plate.)    Keep in mind that the fluid in the pump is circulated thru the hyd MOTOR which has nearly identical internals.  So, if the pump brass surfaces are compromised, so too will be the motor's internals.  Time to refinish the Hyd Motor too.    

[dropdown34 9]

Thanks for the advice from both of you.  Since I have retired my D200 as my main mower with a new ZTM, I will have the time to look at both the motor and pump.  Which means I don't have to rush into working on this problem. I can take my time.

Again thanks  will keep you updated from time to time.

[dropdown34 9]

I just remembered the reason I pulled the engine right away, it was because of the sound of the problem.  You know the sound of a wheel bearing going bad on you car or truck, well that was the sound coming from the pump, but much louder.  As I stated in my first comment, I felt nothing binding or resisting by my turning on the pump shaft.

Don't know if this helps or not, bur that was the sound.

 

David 

 

WWII vet quote:  all of us want to be free, but few of us want to be brave.  for all us to be free, a few of us have to be brave.

Edited July 8, 2019 by dropdown34

[pfrederi 17,885]

Again just a stab in the dark there are needle bearings on the pump shaft...i would think you would feel something if they had failed. 

 

Couple of tools you may want to round up before you start.  A long (6'") allen bit socket 5/16" makes getting the pump manifold apart a lot easier.  Also a 12pt 3/8" and 5/16" socket.

 

I have a lot of the O rings and backer rings required for the manifold just pm your address when you get to that point and i will send some.

Between Davoman and myself we have the numbers for the pump shaft seal and motion control seals they are readily available from any bearing supply place.

 Be glad you are not in a rush,  As Dave said the actual refinishing of the pump and motor isn't that hard  (But you have to maintain a very  clean work area.)  The hard part is getting the pump out of and back into a D200.  i swear when they were built it started with a guy holding the pump and then they built the tractor around it.

 

 

["D"- Man 827]

Have you checked the splines on the inside of the cast coupler?  If it sounded like noise coming from the pump, but the pump shaft turned freely, maybe the splines striped out.

[dropdown34 9]

Since my D200 quite on me almost 2 1/2 weeks ago, all I did was separate the engine from the pump.  I wanted to see if the pump shaft would turn and it did without any problems.  No grinding and there was no resistance while I turned it.  I got all the other major problems with washing machine, replacing the bushing on wife's car, also had to replace the rear ball joints, fix the misfire with my truck, and finish the French drain I was installing.

So after reading all the comments, I stated on my D200.  I pulled the coupling driver and found it is striped out.  Now I'm in the process of finding another coupler; TORO part number 103029.  Will put up an add to see if anyone has one.

Thanks for all the great information and suggestions.

David

WWII vet quote  "ALL OF US WANT TO BE FREE, BUT FEW OF US WANT TO BE BRAVE.  FOR ALL TO BE FREE, A FEW HAVE TO BE BRAVE."

[daveoman1966 3,762]

1 hour ago, dropdown34 said:

Since my D200 quite on me almost 2 1/2 weeks ago, all I did was separate the engine from the pump.  I wanted to see if the pump shaft would turn and it did without any problems.  No grinding and there was no resistance while I turned it.  I got all the other major problems with washing machine, replacing the bushing on wife's car, also had to replace the rear ball joints, fix the misfire with my truck, and finish the French drain I was installing.

So after reading all the comments, I stated on my D200.  I pulled the coupling driver and found it is striped out.  Now I'm in the process of finding another coupler; TORO part number 103029.  Will put up an add to see if anyone has one.

Thanks for all the great information and suggestions.

David

WWII vet quote  "ALL OF US WANT TO BE FREE, BUT FEW OF US WANT TO BE BRAVE.  FOR ALL TO BE FREE, A FEW HAVE TO BE BRAVE."

Inasmuch as you have the pump off, I would urge you to open and inspect the PUMP for wear.  It has, after all, been there for 40+ years.  Look at the Piston BRASS slippers (9), the BRASS Valve Plate, and the base of the Cylinder Block....  If they show wear, refinish them.  To reiterate....if the Pump is worn, so to is the Motor.....Just sayin'. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by daveoman1966

[pfrederi 17,885]

No new couplings...finding good used ones will take some effort.  When you get it and install it check put the TSB on aligning it and using Loctite

 

 

[dropdown34 9]

I have just received the coupler/drive unit and it fits. I know some has suggested that I get in side of the pump since it is a 40yr old D.  The fact of the matter is, I've been using it for the past 5yrs and I have only put on 153hrs.  I know this D200 sat from 1990 till I got it in 2014.  My father used it very little after he bought a small JD to mow his yard in 1981,  for the most part it sat in his tractor shed.  I really believe it has less then 400hrs on it total.

Again thanks for all the great advice, cause it got me in the right mood to work on my D.

Dave.