Convert 4 Speed To 8 Speed

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Was just curious how difficult it would be to convert a 4 speed, like the 5053 Unidrive in my Commando 8, to an 8 speed with the high-low range.

 

Are in input shafts in the same spot? Or would I need a different, custom belt guard?

 

And what about the brake drum / band location?

 

Thanks

[ebinmaine 68,388]

I'm thinking it's a direct bolt in replacement.

Quite useful for driven implements such as a tiller.

I like it for backing into tight spaces because it slows reverse dramatically.

[953 nut 55,804]

If you stay with a six/eight speed transmission from the same era (prior to '73) it will bolt right on and you will have the limited slip differential.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Found this on FB Marketplace. Claims its a good condition 8-speed with 1-1/8" axles, but cant identify the year / model. He's asking $150 for it.

 

EDIT: I'd tear it down while the 4-speed is still in the Commando, but I'd rather not open it up and find water and everything rusty and broken.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by 71_Bronco

[ebinmaine 68,388]

13 minutes ago, 71_Bronco said:

Found this

If the sticker is right that's a 1973. The brake drum may or may not be in the correct place.  @stevasaurus may be able to help you out with that or somebody else.

 

In my opinion that's plenty of money for something like that.

Not grossly overpriced mind you. But plenty.

 

[ebinmaine 68,388]

Too bad you don't live closer. I have a 1981 c81 which would give you a lot more parts. I'd let that go to a redsquare member for $50 picked up at my door.

if you bought me coffee I would probably even throw in some new seals for the transmission.

 

[stevasaurus 22,868]

OK...here is the deal.  Your 753 with #5053 transmission has the brake drum on the 11/44 tooth gear (mushroom gear).  The trans in the picture is going to have the brake drum on the cluster gear shaft.  It will bolt right on, but you will have to re-do the brake linkage.  Guys have done this, not impossible and it looks like you have some linkage there to play with.

   There are 2 options with transmissions with the 8 speed horses from 1973.  The #5086 transmission has 4 pinions, and 1" axles.  The second option is the #5073 transmission.  This has the 10 pinion Limited Slip differential and 1 1/8" axles.  You need to measure those axles, if you go to look at this trans.

   I'm not sure about the input stuff.  The input shaft will be in the same location in all of the transmissions we are talking about, but (I think) the input pulleys are different sizes.  This means that you may have to modify the belt guard on the input end.  The input shafts are different sizes also.

   Only the 1967/8/9   8 speed transmissions (5060 &5071) have the brake drum on the 11/44 tooth gear like your 753. 

   I think I would try to get it for $100...not knowing the condition of that trans...$150 is high for what we are looking at.  That transmission may have a dip stick. 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Stevasaurus, thanks so much for the info!

 

For the input pulley, can I use the same size as my current trans, but get another one with a different ID to fit the input shaft? This would allow me to use the same belt guard, assuming they are still in the same place. Or does the 8-speed need a different input RPM in order for it to get the correct output, and thats what the different input pulley does?

 

Unfortunately, that is the only picture posted, so I am not 100% sure if this has a dipstick or not. He does claim it has the 1-1/8" diameter axles, but obviously I'd have to verify when I look at it.

 

I am also trying to find out if the $150 is for everything in the picture, or if it's for the transmission only.

 

I am going to meet with someone this weekend to get some parts for my gear-drive deck. He has a whole bunch of WH parts, so I may see if he has anything.

 

EDIT: Guy claims it has been under a tarp (asked about condition and if there is water inside), and he claims I get everything in the picture for $150 (at least that's what he's asking)

Edited June 11, 2019 by 71_Bronco

[stevasaurus 22,868]

Your #5053 trans has a 3/4" dia shaft.  The #5086 or #5073 has 5/8" dia shaft.  Your pulley on the 753 will not fit on the other input shaft.  Know this...all of the gear ratios of all the Wheel Horse transmissions are the same  (hi gear in the 6/8 speeds).  If the pulley on the skeleton trans is larger then your input pulley, then the drive pulley on the drive shaft of the engine corresponds to enable the horses to basically have the same speeds throughout the gears.  This assumes the 3600 RPM is constant.  I would think you can buy the same size input pulley with the 5/8" shaft size.  I am not sure if this would increase or lower your top speed...formulas are listed on this site to determine that ratio.

   Even if this chassis has been under tarp, you still risk the trans being full of water with condensation.  There should be 2 bolt holes on top of the trans (if there is no dip stick) that you could stick a straw down and get an idea of what is in there.  If you take something to set the rear end up on, you can do the tests to see if the trans is froze up or is functional.  While in neutral, spin one wheel in one direction, the other should go in the other...even if it is 10 pinion...depends on how fast you turn the tire if it has 1 1/8" axles.  Put into each gear, and turn the input pulley to check the rest of the trans.  Finally check the hi/low shifter.  If all works good, water does not mater...you can fix it.  Showing water is good for getting a lower price. 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Was just looking at the uni-drive manual / schematics. Doesn't look like any of the 8-speeds (1" axle or 1-1/8" axle) have the same output location as my 5053. Unless there was some odd 8-speed with an odd configuration I dont know about.

 

I dont really care about 1" vs 1-1/8" axles as I'm not setting it up to be a puller or anything like that. Just want the versitility of the 8-speed vs the 4-speed I have now.

 

However, if I'm going to have to do some custom work as far as the input pulley and the brake linkage, I might as well get the best 8-speed I can (1-1/8" axles) so that my work will be worth it.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[ebinmaine 68,388]

I guess the biggest question I have is what, specifically, do you want the 8 speed for?

 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

14 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I guess the biggest question I have is what, specifically, do you want the 8 speed for?

 

 

To be honest, just to have the versitility of the high / low selector. I was hoping that someone would say "get a Unidive XXXX out of X, Y, & Z model tractor and it will bolt right in".

 

However, since I do not think it will be that simple, I may need to re-evaluate the need / want for one.

[ebinmaine 68,388]

The reason I asked is because, as Steve said above somewhere, the upper range of a 6 or 8 speed is geared exactly the same as a 3 or 4 speed. The lower range he's basically  divided by about 4.

 

I'd love to see the opinions and experiences of others but from what I have gathered the lower ranges are really only used for operating certain implements that needs to be going very slowly such as a mower in very tall grass or a tiller.

 

We don't have any driven implements here on our acreage but I have found reverse in low to be much more manageable as I stated above.

 

[stevasaurus 22,868]

Trust me on the location of the input gear...it is in the same place on all the Wheel Horse transmissions...manual or hydro.  You may have different sized shafts...5/8" or 3/4"" but the hole is in the same spot.  The difference in the pulley size is probably not that much and can be compensated with the hi/low.  If you are going to the big show...Howard did one on an RJ.  This is not a big deal...you can do this and some members on here that have already done this can chime in to help with what I missed.  I'm sure we have some threads on this subject. 

 

Actually, I did tell you what horse transmissions would be the same and bolt right in.  The 1967/8/9 #5060 & #5071s. 

   It's OK...there is a lot of information here...it will be hard to digest until you get into what you are trying to do and get to put the information with what you have.  Don't forget...lots of help here...and there are no bad questions. 

[pfrederi 17,885]

i put an 8 speed in a 753 had to modify the brake linkage (not hard) and make a cut in the hoodstand.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Well, looks like I will be doing a swap sometime in the future. I was visiting with another member to grab a couple decks, and mentioned the 8 speed swap. He happen to have one of the correct 8 speeds with the brake drum on the correct shaft.

 

I'm going to rebuild it at my leasure, and when it's done, hopefully do a direct swap.

 

Thanks again for all the help!

 

Edit: I am like 99% sure it is one with the 1-1/8" drive shafts. They look thick, but need to measure to be sure.

Edited June 15, 2019 by 71_Bronco

[stevasaurus 22,868]

If the brake drum is on the 11/44 tooth gear...it is 1 1/8" axles.  Nice find. 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

If the brake drum is on the 11/44 tooth gear...it is 1 1/8" axles.  Nice find. 

 

Thanks. What's the difference between the 5060 and the 5071? Would it be the style of the differential?

 

And how would I know what I have? Or would only opening it up tell me?

[stevasaurus 22,868]

The only difference...5060 has aluminum end plates on the differential...the 5071 has steel end plates.  both are 10 pinion Limited Slip.  The only way to find out about the end plates is to open it up.  The #5060 that I had and opened had 1 steel plate and 1 aluminum plate.  someone had been in there before me. 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

The only difference...5060 has aluminum end plates on the differential...the 5071 has steel end plates.  both are 10 pinion Limited Slip.  The only way to find out about the end plates is to open it up.  The #5060 that I had and opened had 1 steel plate and 1 aluminum plate.  someone had been in there before me. 

 

Thanks so much for all the great info. I have been watching... and re-watching... and watching again, all your videos on youtube about re-building the 5060 trans. I'm really excited to tear into this, and may even start before winter season comes.

 

Going to have to clean the garage first though, it's a mess, and have acquired a lot of new tools recently that I need to find a permanent home for.