HY-3 Hydraulic Unit on an 854

[DBlackston 298]

I am starting the process of putting an HY-3 unit on my 854 that I purchased last year. I had a few questions so thought I would put this up.

 

Here is the tractor it is being mounted to. 

 

I picked the 854 and pump up from D.J. Harrison @hcminis after he spotted it in Portland last year. 

 

In preperation for installing the pump unit I decided to lay my parts out and inventory them to ensure I had all of the pieces necessary to install the unit. 

 

I assumed I would be missing some miscellanous hardware and I would rather purchase it before hand then be searching for it on a weekend. 

 

Also in preparation for the install I purchased a rebuild kit from Lowell @wheelhorseman at WheelhorsePartsandmore.com.

 

The handle in the pump is stuck indicating a broken return spring. 

 

Upon taking inventory of the box of parts I have some questions. 

 

It appears this is an assemblage of an HY-2 and HY-3 kit. It has the partially metal hoses of an HY-3. It has the axle bracket of an HY-2 that uses a U bolt and no extra plate. There is no switch relocation bracket, although this was possibly not removed from the donor tractor.  The vastly different patina between parts also lends to this scenario. 

 

Is this the correct rock shaft? It does not have a pin for the cylinder like I have seen in the manuals for the HY-3. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by DBlackston

[DBlackston 298]

What are the two phillips head screws for on the pump mounting bracket? I have not seen this in any of the pictures I have seen of other HY-2 or HY-3 kits. 

 

What is the angled bracket in the above and below picture on the pump mount bracket? It does not appear in any of the manuals or photos I have seen. 

 

 

 

[DBlackston 298]

Is this bracket part of the unit? It does not appear to connect to anything, but is correctly sized to fit over the rear axle.

 

Thank you in advance for the help!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

5 hours ago, DBlackston said:

Is this bracket part of the unit? It does not appear to connect to anything, but is correctly sized to fit over the rear axle.

 

Thank you in advance for the help!

Looks like the bracket that supports the running board after it is moved away from the frame to make room for the cylinder

The rock shaft may be from the same era - cylinder mounts to the running board support shaft instead of the rear axle.

Garry

[DBlackston 298]

@CasualObserver thanks for the information.

 

I agree that the bracket and rock shaft look like the pieces from an HY-6. 

 

It appears that I have the Johnny Cash special of hydraulic units! Someone got it one piece at a time. Unfortunately this one cost me more than a dime!

 

Ill put these two pieces on the shelf for now, time to start the search for the correct rockshaft.

[adsm08 2,022]

Watch yourself closely with the shaft seal for the pump. I had a lot of trouble getting it installed correctly. Lowell told me he starts them with a socket that they just fit inside the end of. I didn't have any luck with that either, and just ended up installing it backwards. So far so good, but it has only been two weeks.

[Achto 27,508]

@DBlackston Not knowing if you have ever disassembled one of these Hien Werner (the actual manufacturer) pumps, I thought that I would give you a heads up. Do not strike the shaft to remove the pulley. If the pulley will not slide off you will need to disassemble the rest of the pump and remove the gear cover inside. Once the the gear cover is removed you may use a hammer to tap on the shaft for pulley removal. If you do not remove the gear cover before tapping on the shaft you will damage the drive gear for the pump. Second note: After you remove the pulley, valve handle, and snap ring every thing else is removed from the inside of the pump. The valve body has a slight taper to it, it will push to the out side with some pressure but slight damage will occur. Remove the valve handle and snap ring on the out side of the valve body and it should push in fairly easy.

[DBlackston 298]

 

11 minutes ago, Achto said:

@DBlackston Not knowing if you have ever disassembled one of these Hien Werner (the actual manufacturer) pumps, I thought that I would give you a heads up. Do not strike the shaft to remove the pulley. If the pulley will not slide off you will need to disassemble the rest of the pump and remove the gear cover inside. Once the the gear cover is removed you may use a hammer to tap on the shaft for pulley removal. If you do not remove the gear cover before tapping on the shaft you will damage the drive gear for the pump. Second note: After you remove the pulley, valve handle, and snap ring every thing else is removed from the inside of the pump. The valve body has a slight taper to it, it will push to the out side with some pressure but slight damage will occur. Remove the valve handle and snap ring on the out side of the valve body and it should push in fairly easy.

 

38 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

Watch yourself closely with the shaft seal for the pump. I had a lot of trouble getting it installed correctly. Lowell told me he starts them with a socket that they just fit inside the end of. I didn't have any luck with that either, and just ended up installing it backwards. So far so good, but it has only been two weeks.

 

Thanks for the tips guys. 

 

I will be sure to keep these in mind when I am dissasembling the pump.

 

Do either of you have the rockshaft?

 

I have the ability to manufacture one but do not have one to prototype from. 

[WHX?? 48,789]

Sure looks like you have the correct rock shaft. In this Pic you have it flipped around. The clevis should face the notch on the shaft. The pin can be just a bolt with the threads cut off and a hole for a retainer pin.

[WHX?? 48,789]

These are pics of Mike's @prondzy's plow rig I took for reference when putting mine together hope they help.

[WHX?? 48,789]

1 hour ago, Achto said:

will damage the drive gear for the pump.

And you know this because?!?!

[Achto 27,508]

6 minutes ago, WHX22 said:

And you know this because?!?!

 

We'll just say that I know someone that had a very unfortunate experience.

[WHX?? 48,789]

Fortunately Lowell has replacements.

[DBlackston 298]

13 hours ago, WHX22 said:

Sure looks like you have the correct rock shaft. In this Pic you have it flipped around. The clevis should face the notch on the shaft. The pin can be just a bolt with the threads cut off and a hole for a retainer pin.

 

@WHX22 if I had a charger, electro,  bronco, or other tractor this would be the corect rock shaft. 

 

On the 854 model with an HY-3 the cylinder connects at the rear axle not the foot rest peg. 

 

Here are some reference photos I found.

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by DBlackston
Grammar, reference photos

[Pullstart 62,799]

Is there any reason you couldn’t mount it on the foot rest bar though?

[WHX?? 48,789]

You are correct DB... my HY-2 had that axle bracket on a 753 but when I mounted it on my 1257 plow tractor I just flipped it around and mounted on the the foot rest bar as Pullstart suggested. Works fine but it sounds like you want to stay orginal? If that's the case the correct rock shaft would have a stud welded on it and you will need the axle bracket. 

 

As mounted on the plow tractor. 

 

For some reason and I don't remember why this setup didn't work on the 1257 so  flipped it as in the above pic. The stud was then on the wrong side so I cut it off and tapped the rock shaft 3/8-16 and used oil lite bushings in the cylinder clevis. Just throwin ideas at ya here. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by WHX22

[DBlackston 298]

5 hours ago, pullstart said:

Is there any reason you couldn’t mount it on the foot rest bar though?

 

I would just prefer to keep it the original direction. I could mount it the other way though yes.

 

 

2 hours ago, WHX22 said:

You are correct DB... my HY-2 had that axle bracket on a 753 but when I mounted it on my 1257 plow tractor I just flipped it around and mounted on the the foot rest bar as Pullstart suggested. Works fine but it sounds like you want to stay orginal? If that's the case the correct rock shaft would have a stud welded on it and you will need the axle bracket. 

 

As mounted on the plow tractor. 

 

For some reason and I don't remember why this setup didn't work on the 1257 so  flipped it as in the above pic. The stud was then on the wrong side so I cut it off and tapped the rock shaft 3/8-16 and used oil lite bushings in the cylinder clevis. Just throwin ideas at ya here. 

 

@WHX22 do you still have that rockshaft?

 

If you could give me a measurement of how far out of the hood tower the shaft is, as well as a length, width and hole to hole distance I will fab a new shaft. 

[953 nut 55,091]

13 hours ago, pullstart said:

Is there any reason you couldn’t mount it on the foot rest bar though?

 

7 hours ago, DBlackston said:

For some reason and I don't remember why this setup didn't work on the 1257

854 is a shot frame, 1257 is a long frame, that is what throws it off.

[WHX?? 48,789]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

 

854 is a shot frame, 1257 is a long frame, that is what throws it off.

I knew it was something like that Richard and I quite couldn't figure it out. Correct me if wrong but I was under the impression shorts and longs shared the same dims rearward of the footrest bar??

 

Yes I still have it installed and working on the 1257. I can get you those dims tonight if I think of it DB. If your interested I would be willing to trade rockshafts as I could use yours. You would have to deal with the missing stud on mine but not a big deal at all.  I also have the axle bracket yet but didn't really want to part with it. If you can fab a rock shaft you should be able to fab the axle bracket tho.  I think I have the switch relocation bracket as well if needed.

Edited May 23, 2019 by WHX22

[953 nut 55,091]

4 hours ago, WHX22 said:

I was under the impression shorts and longs shared the same dims rearward of the footrest bar?

I am not positive,     you could measure the 1055 and 1257 you have to be sure. All of my long frames have running boards and two 3/4" cross bars. It was just what popped into my mind as a reason why it changed.

[DBlackston 298]

My pump rebuild parts showed up today as well as a lift linkage for my  mid mount grader blade. 

 

If anyone needs parts I recommend Lowell @wheelhorseman at wheelhorsepartsandmore.com

 

They came wrapped up in some very nice carpet like packaging materials as well!

 

 

[Wheelhorse Wes 279]

I’ve got the hydraulic lift setup on my 753. The spring is broken (typical) I’ll be in need of the complete rebuild kit

is the Wheelhorseman going to the big show with any kits? Do I order stuff from him on here or through a website?

[953 nut 55,091]

6 hours ago, Wheelhorse Wes said:

I’ve got the hydraulic lift setup on my 753. The spring is broken (typical) I’ll be in need of the complete rebuild kit

is the Wheelhorseman going to the big show with any kits? Do I order stuff from him on here or through a website?

I'm sure he will have them, but you should contact him to reserve a set so he doesn't run out.

[DBlackston 298]

Saturday did not go well for me on this install. 

 

I have been fighting keeping this K181 running for more than 10 minutes or so. 

 

I decided to pull the head and see if there was any scoring in the cylinder, or an excess of carbon in the combustion chamber. 

 

Of course, the bolt next to the exhaust snapped so I have  been focusing on removing that.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by DBlackston

[DBlackston 298]

Tonight I went out and proceeded with some more of the install. 

 

I attached the rear bracket for the cylinder and determined that it would not work with a rear attach-a-matic.

 

 

Apperantly there was a seperate bracket that was used if you wanted an HY-2 / HY-3 setup and to use rear mounted attachments such as a tiller or Dozer Blade. I have not seen any manual pages on this though. Please share them if you have a link to some.

 

After some research on the forum here I saw a post from @WHX22 who had the correct bracket. I have tagged him in the other post for some details on if it is available. 

 

It looks like this.

 

 

Additionally while installing the rear bracket I found some cracking on the rear of the frame where it connects to the transmission. 

 

 

Rather than attemtping to weld the area I am contemplating building a doubler plate to cover the holes and effectively sandwich the affected plate utilizing longer bolts.

 

What repairs have you all made to this area and how?

 

Last week I was pointed towards Zach Edwardson on dimensions of the HY-3 rockshaft that I need He very generously offered to ship one he has to me for measurements. I didn't want to risk it being lost in the mail so he provided numerous measurements.

 

I intend to make some drawings of it during lunchtime and when completed I will post them in the drawings section for anyone who may need one in the future.

Edited May 29, 2019 by DBlackston